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I'm optimistic about self-hosting/self sovereignty (which both fall under the umbrella of what I call indie hosting) long term. But I think both of these artic
by apitman 1y ago
I'm optimistic about self-hosting/self sovereignty (which both fall under the umbrella of what I call indie hosting) long term.
But I think both of these articles gloss over the fact that end-to-end encryption has never been shown to work in a real system with normal people. Key management is a completely unsolved problem.
If you don't have e2ee, with current tooling most people will need someone they trust to run their server. But then you run into a privacy paradox: most people have more content they would rather have google looking at/training on than someone close to them looking at, than the other way around.
Personally I think the next step forward is improving software to be more turnkey so everyone can run their own as a GUI app on an old laptop or phone.
That said, we definitely need protocols for sharing stuff.
- NoraCodes 1y ago> end-to-end encryption has never been shown to work in a real system with normal people I would argue that Signal is a great example of this working quite well, and tons of normal people use Signal. It's no more frictional than WhatsApp.
- ants_everywhere 1y agoSignal has a lot of problems with changing devices while preserving history. As in it's often just impossible.
- mrd3v0 1y agoAre you aware of this https://signal.org/blog/a-synchronized-start-for-linked-devices/ https://signal.org/blog/a-synchronized-start-for-linked-devi...
- ants_everywhere 1y agoI think so, this looks like the feature where adding an new linked device transfers messages from your phone. What still isn't possible as far as I am aware is transferring messages from Android to iOS or vice versa. Last time I looked into this was a few weeks ago.
- apitman 1y agoSignal is a promising example, but ephemeral messaging is a very different use case from things like photo management.
- j45 1y agoThese are all solved problems depending on what someone is after. Tools like tailscale/headscale combined with proxmox give most people point and click self hosting close to using a digital ocean droplet (which should never be used in production).
- xp84 1y agoWhat should never be used in prod?
- j45 1y agoDigital Ocean. Notes in my previous comments somewhere, I can see if I can find it. Among other things, their system has a massive bug that will delete your servers without notifying anyone with a valid and working CC on file.
- apitman 1y agoTailscale + Proxmox is still an order of magnitude more difficult than this is going to need to be.
- j45 1y agoOne can follow a video in about an hour maybe two and be up and have the basics down with proxmox. Of course, if someone wants to figure out perfection the first time it might take a bit longer.
- apitman 1y agoLike I said, an order of magnitude harder than it should be. It should be install app, do an oauth flow to open a tunnel, done.
- j45 1y agoAh, for Tailscale inside Proxmox I'm assuming. This script exactly works like as you're describing: https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=add-tailscale-lxc https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=add...
- wmf 1y agoIf Self-hosting doesn't have dissident-level privacy it's still dramatically better than centralized SaaS.
- fsflover 1y ago> end-to-end encryption has never been shown to work in a real system with normal people Matrix has solved this problem.
- apitman 1y agoI've tried to adopt Matrix multiple times over years. IMO the UX is evidence that e2ee is not solved.