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Carbon trading makes me realize that my idealism is waning as I rapidly approach old age. I agree with Lovelock in that it seems like a gigantic scam. However,

Carbon trading makes me realize that my idealism is waning as I rapidly approach old age. I agree with Lovelock in that it seems like a gigantic scam. However, rather than outrage, I'm thinking "How can I get in on the ground floor of this gigantic scam?"

3pt14159 18y ago
The key is to ignore CO2 and focus on the much more potent ones, because you can sell credits for equivalent tons of CO2. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenhouse_Gas_by_Sector.png Step 1: Collect Nitrous Oxide in giant tanks. Step 2: Store the Nitrous Oxide Step 3: Get $$$ from CO2 market Step 4: Use portion of money to buy 30 year government backed securities to cover maintenance of the tanks/land. Keep the rest as profit. The key is to get your storage/transportation to a minimum. High compression, or piped to the ocean floor, maybe.
medearis 18y ago
I couldn't really find much in what he had to say about WHY it is a "scam." The linked article requires registration and is cut off before it starts explaining why "this approach is misguided." While carbon trading may not be a solution for global warming, it is one of the few models we have for using market incentives to curb carbon emissions in the short term.
- Retric 18y ago
  If you just tax carbon emissions at say 1$ per ton it's easy to track. But with cap and trade people who say plant 1 million trees in the desert can get credits for making things cleaner and sell them. Now the plants all die, but that's not important as long as you can convince the regulators that some of them might make it your in the clear. With a simple tax everyone pays, when it get's complex those who understand the system pay far less.
- m0nty 18y ago
  I think there's some info in here: http://www.carbontradewatch.org/pubs/carbon_neutral_myth.pdf http://www.carbontradewatch.org/pubs/carbon_neutral_myth.pdf It's been a while since I read it through but their basic point is that carbon credits are to the environment what indulgences were to the mediaeval church.
  - ovi256 18y ago
    Mediaeval Catholic church please. No other church sold indulgences (the other major church, Eastern Orthodox, definitely did not). Yeah, I'm a semantic nazi. PS: great comparison, I'll steal it for my own arguments. With your permission of course.
    - m0nty 18y ago
      "With your permission of course." Not my comparison, so go ahead. The PDF I linked to was interesting because I'd always wondered if carbon trading (in all its forms) helped much, and the answer seems to be "no".

3pt14159 18y ago

The key is to ignore CO2 and focus on the much more potent ones, because you can sell credits for equivalent tons of CO2. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenhouse_Gas_by_Sector.png Step 1: Collect Nitrous Oxide in giant tanks. Step 2: Store the Nitrous Oxide Step 3: Get $$$ from CO2 market Step 4: Use portion of money to buy 30 year government backed securities to cover maintenance of the tanks/land. Keep the rest as profit. The key is to get your storage/transportation to a minimum. High compression, or piped to the ocean floor, maybe.

medearis 18y ago

I couldn't really find much in what he had to say about WHY it is a "scam." The linked article requires registration and is cut off before it starts explaining why "this approach is misguided." While carbon trading may not be a solution for global warming, it is one of the few models we have for using market incentives to curb carbon emissions in the short term.

Retric 18y ago
If you just tax carbon emissions at say 1$ per ton it's easy to track. But with cap and trade people who say plant 1 million trees in the desert can get credits for making things cleaner and sell them. Now the plants all die, but that's not important as long as you can convince the regulators that some of them might make it your in the clear. With a simple tax everyone pays, when it get's complex those who understand the system pay far less.
m0nty 18y ago
I think there's some info in here: http://www.carbontradewatch.org/pubs/carbon_neutral_myth.pdf http://www.carbontradewatch.org/pubs/carbon_neutral_myth.pdf It's been a while since I read it through but their basic point is that carbon credits are to the environment what indulgences were to the mediaeval church.
- ovi256 18y ago
  Mediaeval Catholic church please. No other church sold indulgences (the other major church, Eastern Orthodox, definitely did not). Yeah, I'm a semantic nazi. PS: great comparison, I'll steal it for my own arguments. With your permission of course.
  - m0nty 18y ago
    "With your permission of course." Not my comparison, so go ahead. The PDF I linked to was interesting because I'd always wondered if carbon trading (in all its forms) helped much, and the answer seems to be "no".