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> Basic things like fuel injection Don't get me started. It's virtually impossible to buy a car without fuel injection nowadays, but most GA airplanes still us

> Basic things like fuel injection Don't get me started. It's virtually impossible to buy a car without fuel injection nowadays, but most GA airplanes still use carburetors. And these are vehicles that are constantly changing altitude, so carburetors are even more unsuited for airplanes than for cars. Okay I lied. You can buy fuel injected engines for airplanes. They are readily available. They merely cost 2x or 3x the price of carbureted engines.

looping__lui 1y ago
I hear you in general, but GA engines need to work more reliably and go through way more intense operational challenges than automotive engines. Picture this: you take off at 100°F on the ground at full throttle with only air cooling to save weight and reduce potential failure points, then climb to 10,000 feet where the outside air temperature drops to around 65°F (or even freezing conditions). The baffling is a bit worn, and the pilot maintains 70 knots in the climb, pushing cylinder head temperatures (CHT) to 420°F or higher. Then the pilot gets chatty and pulls the engine back to near-idle while CHTs are still at 350°F, before pushing the nose down to kill altitude—causing CHTs to plummet to 250°F in minutes. Through all these extreme thermal cycles and temperature swings, the engine simply cannot quit on its pilot. GA engines may look antiquated—with their carburetors, magnetos, and mechanical fuel pumps—but this apparent simplicity is entirely by design. These “outdated” systems are actually time-tested solutions engineered for ultimate reliability when failure means catastrophe. While car oils use metallic detergent additives, aviation oils must use ashless dispersants to prevent spark plug fouling that could cause engine failure. The oils must handle sustained high RPM operation and brutal temperature cycling while meeting strict FAA specifications that prioritize proven reliability over cutting-edge performance. Every component, from the dual magneto ignition (no electrical system dependency) to the mechanical engine-driven fuel pump, represents decades of refinement focused on one critical goal: the engine will not quit when you need it most. It’s not that these engines are behind the times—they’re precisely engineered for their mission-critical role where proven, simple systems trump technological sophistication.
- 3ple_alpha 1y ago
  It is not true that reliability requires old-style engine design, it's more a question of cost. Modern jet airliners (their engines but also really everything about them) have a ton of complexity, including a myriad of electrical control systems, yet they are no less reliable. It's just that this is not a fair comparison because manufacturers of said airliners have more resources for R&D.
  - CryptoBanker 1y ago
    Except now we’re back to one of the main points of the article - modern airliners cost billions of dollars to develop and certify, and GA aircraft will never get that level of investment.
    - bathtub365 1y ago
      The airliners are also almost exclusively flown by professional pilots.
      - tialaramex 1y ago
        Professional here also introducing an element that's unexpected. We expect that they'll have more training, they've often done simulator training which is more realistic, they have a lot more hours and so on. But because it's a job they have much less Plan Continuation Bias aka "Get-there-itis". Flying New York to Dallas? I did that yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that. So if the weather looks bad and maybe we shouldn't, well then I guess we just don't go, I'll go tomorrow, or maybe somebody else will, it's just a job. GA pilots are notorious for this problem, and it puts them in vulnerable situations where they're one problem away from disaster, as weather is worse than they hoped, things don't happen the way they expected, and gradually they go from "It'll probably be fine" to "I hope I live to learn from this experience".
- sokoloff 1y ago
  I agree with most of what you say, but airplane piston engines are low RPM by necessity of keeping the prop tips below supersonic. Many common airplanes engines have a max RPM of 2700 and are often cruised at 2300-2400.
rainsford 1y ago
> It's virtually impossible to buy a car without fuel injection nowadays, but most GA airplanes still use carburetors. That's because GA airplanes in general are significantly older than most cars on the road. If you're buying a brand new car and a brand new GA airplane you're equally unlikely to encounter one without fuel injection. Now the reason this is the case is because instead of buying brand new GA airplanes, most people are just trading around the old ones because new GA airplanes are ridiculously expensive. This is also a regulation problem, among other things, but the fuel injection thing isn't because modern GA is behind the curve. The issue is that the vast majority of GA pilots aren't flying modern GA.
- dreamcompiler 1y ago
  Go to Oshkosh some year for EAA. You'll see that the vast majority of brand new "affordable" GA airplanes have carburetors. Affordable GA airplanes do exist, for some definition of affordable. We're probably agreeing with each other but using different words.

looping__lui 1y ago

I hear you in general, but GA engines need to work more reliably and go through way more intense operational challenges than automotive engines. Picture this: you take off at 100°F on the ground at full throttle with only air cooling to save weight and reduce potential failure points, then climb to 10,000 feet where the outside air temperature drops to around 65°F (or even freezing conditions). The baffling is a bit worn, and the pilot maintains 70 knots in the climb, pushing cylinder head temperatures (CHT) to 420°F or higher. Then the pilot gets chatty and pulls the engine back to near-idle while CHTs are still at 350°F, before pushing the nose down to kill altitude—causing CHTs to plummet to 250°F in minutes. Through all these extreme thermal cycles and temperature swings, the engine simply cannot quit on its pilot. GA engines may look antiquated—with their carburetors, magnetos, and mechanical fuel pumps—but this apparent simplicity is entirely by design. These “outdated” systems are actually time-tested solutions engineered for ultimate reliability when failure means catastrophe. While car oils use metallic detergent additives, aviation oils must use ashless dispersants to prevent spark plug fouling that could cause engine failure. The oils must handle sustained high RPM operation and brutal temperature cycling while meeting strict FAA specifications that prioritize proven reliability over cutting-edge performance. Every component, from the dual magneto ignition (no electrical system dependency) to the mechanical engine-driven fuel pump, represents decades of refinement focused on one critical goal: the engine will not quit when you need it most. It’s not that these engines are behind the times—they’re precisely engineered for their mission-critical role where proven, simple systems trump technological sophistication.

3ple_alpha 1y ago
It is not true that reliability requires old-style engine design, it's more a question of cost. Modern jet airliners (their engines but also really everything about them) have a ton of complexity, including a myriad of electrical control systems, yet they are no less reliable. It's just that this is not a fair comparison because manufacturers of said airliners have more resources for R&D.
- CryptoBanker 1y ago
  Except now we’re back to one of the main points of the article - modern airliners cost billions of dollars to develop and certify, and GA aircraft will never get that level of investment.
  - bathtub365 1y ago
    The airliners are also almost exclusively flown by professional pilots.
    - tialaramex 1y ago
      Professional here also introducing an element that's unexpected. We expect that they'll have more training, they've often done simulator training which is more realistic, they have a lot more hours and so on. But because it's a job they have much less Plan Continuation Bias aka "Get-there-itis". Flying New York to Dallas? I did that yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that. So if the weather looks bad and maybe we shouldn't, well then I guess we just don't go, I'll go tomorrow, or maybe somebody else will, it's just a job. GA pilots are notorious for this problem, and it puts them in vulnerable situations where they're one problem away from disaster, as weather is worse than they hoped, things don't happen the way they expected, and gradually they go from "It'll probably be fine" to "I hope I live to learn from this experience".
sokoloff 1y ago
I agree with most of what you say, but airplane piston engines are low RPM by necessity of keeping the prop tips below supersonic. Many common airplanes engines have a max RPM of 2700 and are often cruised at 2300-2400.

rainsford 1y ago

> It's virtually impossible to buy a car without fuel injection nowadays, but most GA airplanes still use carburetors. That's because GA airplanes in general are significantly older than most cars on the road. If you're buying a brand new car and a brand new GA airplane you're equally unlikely to encounter one without fuel injection. Now the reason this is the case is because instead of buying brand new GA airplanes, most people are just trading around the old ones because new GA airplanes are ridiculously expensive. This is also a regulation problem, among other things, but the fuel injection thing isn't because modern GA is behind the curve. The issue is that the vast majority of GA pilots aren't flying modern GA.

dreamcompiler 1y ago
Go to Oshkosh some year for EAA. You'll see that the vast majority of brand new "affordable" GA airplanes have carburetors. Affordable GA airplanes do exist, for some definition of affordable. We're probably agreeing with each other but using different words.