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It's fine for very very small projects. I have a couple of small tools which work well. One is basically a 200 loc script that coverts files. The moment you n

It's fine for very very small projects. I have a couple of small tools which work well. One is basically a 200 loc script that coverts files. The moment you need multiple files, the project is probably big enough where you really need a strong type system. Java and C# fit extremely well for this. Both have caught up in terms of ease of use. The latest .net let's you run a C# file individually like a bash script. The gift and curse of python is that it's really easy to do a lot. So you can be sloppy , just tossing stuff in, up until issues start to arise. Next thing you know you have a giant code base no one has any chance of understanding. Still, it's a great first language. You can make small tools within a month. C isn't nearly as forgiving. If you love the Python syntax, Nim is here.

FpUser 1y ago
>"Still, it's a great first language. You can make small tools within a month. C isn't nearly as forgiving." If C and Python are the only options I would strongly vote for C being the first. It will weed out those who are unfit. Myself I use many languages including Python but I started programming by entering machine codes in hex. Obviously I do not do it now but I think it did benefit me in general.
- 999900000999 1y ago
  Not everyone is going to become a Staff Engineer at Google. Python can help a bartender write a small application to track her stock for example. In fact with a bit of computer vision this can work very well. I originally just wanted to make small games, I was hacking together sloppy JavaScript. I don't like gate keeping. The future is probably even a higher level language than Python. Maybe an embedded llm that sorta decides what to do at runtime.
  - FpUser 1y ago
    I was talking about teaching programming on pro level. If one just wants to play anything goes. Whatever they feel like. >" I don't like gate keeping." I hate it too. Cheers. >"higher level language than Python" I do not see Python as a high level language. Sure it is not assembly but that's about it in my opinion.
    - Yoric 1y ago
      Please do not give us other FP users a bad name :) Python is high level insofar as it's very far from the metal, and insofar as you can define quite sophisticated abstractions. Would I use Python to write a compiler or sophisticated graph algorithms? Probably not if I had any choice in the matter. But it has proven to be a great language for experimenters in numerical analysis, data science, machine learning, etc. who don't care (and don't want to care) about how the machine works.
      - 999900000999 1y ago
        The really ironic thing about this industry is you can use a high level language and make an unholy amount of money. And you also have a bunch of low-level embedded engineers barely making 60K or so. I don't really care about how a computer works, like most of us probably don't care how a car works. We just know it gets us to where we need to be. Python, can get you a working rest API in 10 loc. Try that in C. The original sin of Python ( arguably JavaScript as well) is these languages were never meant to scale to large code bases. VS Code and other IDEs use various tricks to help, but it gets weird.
        FpUser 1y ago
        >"The really ironic thing about this industry is you can use a high level language and make an unholy amount of money. And you also have a bunch of low-level embedded engineers barely making 60K or so." What industry? I know low level stuff but do not get hung up in it. I run my own company and develop enterprise grade products for clients. I make well above 60k
        999900000999 1y ago
        Well if your running your own business you'll definitely make more than an IC. In my experience it's much easier to write Python or JavaScript at a professional level vs C or another more difficult language. I think it's calmed down, but for a while Ruby was hot and you had 300k TC jobs demanding it. The highest paying job I've had so far had us using Python. Fintech loves Python. Maybe one day I'll get a job at Jane Street. Python's not fun in a larger code base though... Edit: I'm actually a bit intrigued as to what you consider professional programming. As far as I'm concerned if I write code and I get a paycheck that's professional.

FpUser 1y ago

>"Still, it's a great first language. You can make small tools within a month. C isn't nearly as forgiving." If C and Python are the only options I would strongly vote for C being the first. It will weed out those who are unfit. Myself I use many languages including Python but I started programming by entering machine codes in hex. Obviously I do not do it now but I think it did benefit me in general.

999900000999 1y ago
Not everyone is going to become a Staff Engineer at Google. Python can help a bartender write a small application to track her stock for example. In fact with a bit of computer vision this can work very well. I originally just wanted to make small games, I was hacking together sloppy JavaScript. I don't like gate keeping. The future is probably even a higher level language than Python. Maybe an embedded llm that sorta decides what to do at runtime.
- FpUser 1y ago
  I was talking about teaching programming on pro level. If one just wants to play anything goes. Whatever they feel like. >" I don't like gate keeping." I hate it too. Cheers. >"higher level language than Python" I do not see Python as a high level language. Sure it is not assembly but that's about it in my opinion.
  - Yoric 1y ago
    Please do not give us other FP users a bad name :) Python is high level insofar as it's very far from the metal, and insofar as you can define quite sophisticated abstractions. Would I use Python to write a compiler or sophisticated graph algorithms? Probably not if I had any choice in the matter. But it has proven to be a great language for experimenters in numerical analysis, data science, machine learning, etc. who don't care (and don't want to care) about how the machine works.
    - 999900000999 1y ago
      The really ironic thing about this industry is you can use a high level language and make an unholy amount of money. And you also have a bunch of low-level embedded engineers barely making 60K or so. I don't really care about how a computer works, like most of us probably don't care how a car works. We just know it gets us to where we need to be. Python, can get you a working rest API in 10 loc. Try that in C. The original sin of Python ( arguably JavaScript as well) is these languages were never meant to scale to large code bases. VS Code and other IDEs use various tricks to help, but it gets weird.
      - FpUser 1y ago
        >"The really ironic thing about this industry is you can use a high level language and make an unholy amount of money. And you also have a bunch of low-level embedded engineers barely making 60K or so." What industry? I know low level stuff but do not get hung up in it. I run my own company and develop enterprise grade products for clients. I make well above 60k
        999900000999 1y ago
        Well if your running your own business you'll definitely make more than an IC. In my experience it's much easier to write Python or JavaScript at a professional level vs C or another more difficult language. I think it's calmed down, but for a while Ruby was hot and you had 300k TC jobs demanding it. The highest paying job I've had so far had us using Python. Fintech loves Python. Maybe one day I'll get a job at Jane Street. Python's not fun in a larger code base though... Edit: I'm actually a bit intrigued as to what you consider professional programming. As far as I'm concerned if I write code and I get a paycheck that's professional.