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I think it's a generational thing. Younger generations genuinely cared about the implicit exploitation and violence in the industry, older didn't. See also: vi

I think it's a generational thing. Younger generations genuinely cared about the implicit exploitation and violence in the industry, older didn't. See also: views on climate change, adoption of renewable energy, etc.

mensetmanusman 1y ago
Younger generations have none percent of the wealth to make these decisions compared to the boomers.
- karaterobot 1y ago
  > Younger Americans (millennials and Gen Zers) owned $1.35 for every $1 of wealth owned by baby boomers at the same age. https://www.stlouisfed.org/community-development/publications/the-state-of-us-household-wealth https://www.stlouisfed.org/community-development/publication...
  - nyc_data_geek 1y ago
    >At the same age Boomers have had significantly longer and better sustained market conditions to grow their wealth.
  - moate 1y ago
    Um, I'm going to go ahead and point out this, probably not super relevant data point "While trailing Gen Xers for the beginning of their adult lives, younger American households’ average wealth began to exceed that of Gen Xers at about age 30, reflecting historically high wealth levels following the COVID-19 pandemic." I have a feeling that average wealth adjustment falls very heavily on the home owners, which is only just above half of all the cohort. Had a similar thing happened to boomers in 89, almost 70% would have benefitted. I think it's also worth pointing out: The share of wealth held by boomers in 89 (why 89? Because they didn't have data before that. It's why the graphs start in a weird spot and why it's not a great study unless you're trying to pull out a "gotcha" stat) represented almost 20% of the total wealth in the country. "Millenials/GenZ" has a hold on only HALF that percentage. Doctors may hate your one weird statistic, but socio-demographists probably don't...
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > have a feeling that average wealth adjustment falls very heavily on the home owners, which is only just above half of all the cohort This is also true for other generations.
- refurb 1y ago
  That seems like an obvious observation? People accumulate wealth over a life time of work. It would be entirely expect that younger generations have less wealth than older generations.
  - ghushn3 1y ago
    If that was true, you'd expect the younger professionals of today would have comparative amounts of wealth to the boomers when they were young professionals. It's absolutely not the case. Each generation is getting poorer and poorer as they hit the same benchmarks. This tracks with broad trends of wealth inequality increasing as well. So no, it's not just "they haven't accumulated yet", because it's not clear they will have the opportunity to do so.
    - naveen99 1y ago
      Boomers had a lot more sibling and lot smaller inheritances coming to them. Kids these days will inherit a lot more and share a lot less with siblings.
      - adaml_623 1y ago
        Unless Boomers live long enough to spend the inheritance on nursing homes
      - prerok 1y ago
        Capital of the 21st century by Piketty. Highly recommended reading. It points out how slow degradation will happen. You are right in a sense. But it's still a very bad prognosis.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > you'd expect the younger professionals of today would have comparative amounts of wealth to the boomers when they were young professionals. It's absolutely not the case Source? The data I’ve seen indicate the median millennial is wealthier than the median boomer was at their age.
- j45 1y ago
  Historically very few generations start out with wealth when they’re young? :) Most of it is earned over time.
jonplackett 1y ago
It’s an interesting comparison though because equally solar / electric cars only really went mass market when they became economically a good deal
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- moate 1y ago
  "When a thing becomes affordable more people have access to it." nods nods So is our conclusion "People talk a big game but their morality clearly fails based on how the market has played out" or "People want things but the market has competing forces and sometimes takes a long time to find ways to provide people what they want?" My rephrasing to your statement is "It took the mass market decades to figure out how to deliver consumers the solar/electric cars they wanted at a price they could afford." Also, points in the general direction of the established energy providers I think these assholes had some incentive not to let the market get out from under them and make sure they were the ones who continued to profit from it.
  - jMyles 1y ago
    > My rephrasing to your statement is "It took the mass market decades to figure out how to deliver consumers the solar/electric cars they wanted at a price they could afford." Nicely stated. I like your style of debate / deliberation.
eastbound 1y ago
It’s not generations, it’s age ;) Younger generations are still idealists. With age, you get betrayed in your ideals. You discover scientific studies weren’t so scientific as they get turned over one by one. It’s something like: Ice caps will still melt, and everything you did for the better, bad luck, they’ll have increased the warming. Same when we tried to eat better against cancer or raised or fists to defend gay people. I don’t want you to believe you’re generation won’t suffer the same fate ;)
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  Why would finding out that some scientific studies weren't done correctly change any person's views when this is always the case and no one has ever said otherwise?
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  Both racism against Blacks and homophobia has been significantly reduced when comparing previous decades to today. Doesn't that show younger generations have a markable improvement in "being good"?
  - const_cast 1y ago
    Yes but you see, now we have a trans person in some sport somewhere who did kind of okay in a competition nobody cares about, and that undoes all the good. Unfortunately, we have to burn it all down and start over. ... or so populist messaging from the Right would have you believe.
- moate 1y ago
  I have to say, sample size of 2, but as we get older my wife and I get further and further entrenched in our idealism. I was a center-left socialist as a kid and I'm a full blown anarchist in my 40's so, idk, "people aren't a monolith"?
- ghushn3 1y ago
  > With age, you get betrayed in your ideals. Some of us old-heads got pushed much farther left as a result of this. I used to be a Democrat, blue and blue. These days I'm much more like, "The Dems will sell me out to make a buck, I gotta go out and actually be the change I want to see in the world." Young folks who are experiencing disillusion -- don't give in to despair. You can make a meaningful difference in lives. Build communities, engage in mutual aid, whatever.
j45 1y ago
Such topics were being taught since the 80s, maybe it takes time to teacher hold. If ethical mining were an issue today would they lay down their devices that use critical minerals? Solar energy was quite expensive until recently to improve adoption.

mensetmanusman 1y ago

Younger generations have none percent of the wealth to make these decisions compared to the boomers.

karaterobot 1y ago
> Younger Americans (millennials and Gen Zers) owned $1.35 for every $1 of wealth owned by baby boomers at the same age. https://www.stlouisfed.org/community-development/publications/the-state-of-us-household-wealth https://www.stlouisfed.org/community-development/publication...
- nyc_data_geek 1y ago
  >At the same age Boomers have had significantly longer and better sustained market conditions to grow their wealth.
- moate 1y ago
  Um, I'm going to go ahead and point out this, probably not super relevant data point "While trailing Gen Xers for the beginning of their adult lives, younger American households’ average wealth began to exceed that of Gen Xers at about age 30, reflecting historically high wealth levels following the COVID-19 pandemic." I have a feeling that average wealth adjustment falls very heavily on the home owners, which is only just above half of all the cohort. Had a similar thing happened to boomers in 89, almost 70% would have benefitted. I think it's also worth pointing out: The share of wealth held by boomers in 89 (why 89? Because they didn't have data before that. It's why the graphs start in a weird spot and why it's not a great study unless you're trying to pull out a "gotcha" stat) represented almost 20% of the total wealth in the country. "Millenials/GenZ" has a hold on only HALF that percentage. Doctors may hate your one weird statistic, but socio-demographists probably don't...
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > have a feeling that average wealth adjustment falls very heavily on the home owners, which is only just above half of all the cohort This is also true for other generations.
refurb 1y ago
That seems like an obvious observation? People accumulate wealth over a life time of work. It would be entirely expect that younger generations have less wealth than older generations.
- ghushn3 1y ago
  If that was true, you'd expect the younger professionals of today would have comparative amounts of wealth to the boomers when they were young professionals. It's absolutely not the case. Each generation is getting poorer and poorer as they hit the same benchmarks. This tracks with broad trends of wealth inequality increasing as well. So no, it's not just "they haven't accumulated yet", because it's not clear they will have the opportunity to do so.
  - naveen99 1y ago
    Boomers had a lot more sibling and lot smaller inheritances coming to them. Kids these days will inherit a lot more and share a lot less with siblings.
    - adaml_623 1y ago
      Unless Boomers live long enough to spend the inheritance on nursing homes
    - prerok 1y ago
      Capital of the 21st century by Piketty. Highly recommended reading. It points out how slow degradation will happen. You are right in a sense. But it's still a very bad prognosis.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > you'd expect the younger professionals of today would have comparative amounts of wealth to the boomers when they were young professionals. It's absolutely not the case Source? The data I’ve seen indicate the median millennial is wealthier than the median boomer was at their age.
j45 1y ago
Historically very few generations start out with wealth when they’re young? :) Most of it is earned over time.

jonplackett 1y ago

It’s an interesting comparison though because equally solar / electric cars only really went mass market when they became economically a good deal

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
moate 1y ago
"When a thing becomes affordable more people have access to it." nods nods So is our conclusion "People talk a big game but their morality clearly fails based on how the market has played out" or "People want things but the market has competing forces and sometimes takes a long time to find ways to provide people what they want?" My rephrasing to your statement is "It took the mass market decades to figure out how to deliver consumers the solar/electric cars they wanted at a price they could afford." Also, points in the general direction of the established energy providers I think these assholes had some incentive not to let the market get out from under them and make sure they were the ones who continued to profit from it.
- jMyles 1y ago
  > My rephrasing to your statement is "It took the mass market decades to figure out how to deliver consumers the solar/electric cars they wanted at a price they could afford." Nicely stated. I like your style of debate / deliberation.

eastbound 1y ago

It’s not generations, it’s age ;) Younger generations are still idealists. With age, you get betrayed in your ideals. You discover scientific studies weren’t so scientific as they get turned over one by one. It’s something like: Ice caps will still melt, and everything you did for the better, bad luck, they’ll have increased the warming. Same when we tried to eat better against cancer or raised or fists to defend gay people. I don’t want you to believe you’re generation won’t suffer the same fate ;)

Braxton1980 1y ago
Why would finding out that some scientific studies weren't done correctly change any person's views when this is always the case and no one has ever said otherwise?
Braxton1980 1y ago
Both racism against Blacks and homophobia has been significantly reduced when comparing previous decades to today. Doesn't that show younger generations have a markable improvement in "being good"?
- const_cast 1y ago
  Yes but you see, now we have a trans person in some sport somewhere who did kind of okay in a competition nobody cares about, and that undoes all the good. Unfortunately, we have to burn it all down and start over. ... or so populist messaging from the Right would have you believe.
moate 1y ago
I have to say, sample size of 2, but as we get older my wife and I get further and further entrenched in our idealism. I was a center-left socialist as a kid and I'm a full blown anarchist in my 40's so, idk, "people aren't a monolith"?
ghushn3 1y ago
> With age, you get betrayed in your ideals. Some of us old-heads got pushed much farther left as a result of this. I used to be a Democrat, blue and blue. These days I'm much more like, "The Dems will sell me out to make a buck, I gotta go out and actually be the change I want to see in the world." Young folks who are experiencing disillusion -- don't give in to despair. You can make a meaningful difference in lives. Build communities, engage in mutual aid, whatever.

j45 1y ago

Such topics were being taught since the 80s, maybe it takes time to teacher hold. If ethical mining were an issue today would they lay down their devices that use critical minerals? Solar energy was quite expensive until recently to improve adoption.