3 ms·

Your argument boils down to "there are very bad people out there so we need another Kiwi Farms to fight this." I have heard this type of rhetoric so many times

Your argument boils down to "there are very bad people out there so we need another Kiwi Farms to fight this." I have heard this type of rhetoric so many times and it makes me sick to the stomach every single time. So much evil are done in the name of protecting victimized people from the worst offenders. Police militarization, illegal mass surveillance, censorship, extraordinary renditions, torture, invasions, using civilian starvation as a tool for war, killing medical workers, and many many more. Doesn't make any of it right.

mandmandam 1y ago
"Women having a platform to talk with each other without men is somehow equivalent to killing medical workers and torture". See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. That said, I am having trouble figuring out how you manage to compare an online stalking and bullying website to a forum where women can warn each other of serial assaulters. The intention is clearly entirely different, even if both are open to abuse (like every forum of every type ever).
- soraminazuki 1y ago
  > See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". You demonstrated a straw man argument. I called you out for using a certain type of rhetoric, commonly referred to as "think of the children." There's a big difference. I "boiled down" your argument to the type of rhetoric being used. > However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. How ironic. You first presented an example of a bad faith reinterpretation of my comment to demonstrate a fallacy. But then repeated that same reinterpretation in your own argument. How can you present a bad example, and then immediately follow that example? You also took my use of the term "boil down" out of context. That too isn't the "best possible interpretation." > The intention is clearly entirely different The pretext doesn't matter. The "intention" of killing medical workers may be fighting terrorism. Doesn't make it right. I'm not even sure that there's a difference in pretext either between this and Kiwi Farms. Both userbases claim to expose bad people.
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    My argument was that because women can not rely on the justice system, you can't blame them for resorting to talking to each other on the internet about potential predators. That's not a "strawman argument", it's just basic common sense - if the law isn't protecting you, then you have to protect yourself. As someone else itt put it: Women being vigilant is rational behaviour". And while you lambast my source (despite the fact that any set of statistics you like will say that rape has heinous reporting, referral and conviction rates), you say yourself in a sibling comment that the only way to fix this is by improving the justice system. You admit, in your own words, that the justice system is inadequate here and not fit for purpose. Your beef, as generously as I can interpret it, seems to be that allowing women to talk to each other about potential predators could result in false accusations (that's what a "think of the children" argument looks like btw). You then repeatedly conflate this forum with "torture", "mass surveillance", and an organized bullying group that has caused at least 3 suicides - that part I can't wrap my head around. You even compare this forum to "censorship" - the rank irony is giving me a headache. All the crazy things that have happened in the last 6 months, and this is what has you up in arms. Women talking to each other, trying to protect themselves from assault and rape. Absolutely wild.
    - jadamson 1y ago
      > All the crazy things that have happened in the last 6 months, and this is what has you up in arms. Women talking to each other, trying to protect themselves from assault and rape. Absolutely wild. You have no idea what else he is or isn't up in arms about. Given that the concern is users of this app /making stuff up/, this line is a touch ironic.
      - mandmandam 1y ago
        > You have no idea what else he is or isn't up in arms about. I actually looked back through 6 months worth of their comments. This is the angriest they've been here. > Given that the concern is users of this app /making stuff up/, this line is a touch ironic. I don't know why you would believe that I claimed to know what they're like in their personal life. It seems pretty obvious to me that I'd be referring to their comments here, but consider that point clarified now.

mandmandam 1y ago

"Women having a platform to talk with each other without men is somehow equivalent to killing medical workers and torture". See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. That said, I am having trouble figuring out how you manage to compare an online stalking and bullying website to a forum where women can warn each other of serial assaulters. The intention is clearly entirely different, even if both are open to abuse (like every forum of every type ever).

soraminazuki 1y ago
> See, it's easy to "boil arguments down". You demonstrated a straw man argument. I called you out for using a certain type of rhetoric, commonly referred to as "think of the children." There's a big difference. I "boiled down" your argument to the type of rhetoric being used. > However, this is a forum where we're supposed to interpret what people say in the best possible way. How ironic. You first presented an example of a bad faith reinterpretation of my comment to demonstrate a fallacy. But then repeated that same reinterpretation in your own argument. How can you present a bad example, and then immediately follow that example? You also took my use of the term "boil down" out of context. That too isn't the "best possible interpretation." > The intention is clearly entirely different The pretext doesn't matter. The "intention" of killing medical workers may be fighting terrorism. Doesn't make it right. I'm not even sure that there's a difference in pretext either between this and Kiwi Farms. Both userbases claim to expose bad people.
- mandmandam 1y ago
  My argument was that because women can not rely on the justice system, you can't blame them for resorting to talking to each other on the internet about potential predators. That's not a "strawman argument", it's just basic common sense - if the law isn't protecting you, then you have to protect yourself. As someone else itt put it: Women being vigilant is rational behaviour". And while you lambast my source (despite the fact that any set of statistics you like will say that rape has heinous reporting, referral and conviction rates), you say yourself in a sibling comment that the only way to fix this is by improving the justice system. You admit, in your own words, that the justice system is inadequate here and not fit for purpose. Your beef, as generously as I can interpret it, seems to be that allowing women to talk to each other about potential predators could result in false accusations (that's what a "think of the children" argument looks like btw). You then repeatedly conflate this forum with "torture", "mass surveillance", and an organized bullying group that has caused at least 3 suicides - that part I can't wrap my head around. You even compare this forum to "censorship" - the rank irony is giving me a headache. All the crazy things that have happened in the last 6 months, and this is what has you up in arms. Women talking to each other, trying to protect themselves from assault and rape. Absolutely wild.
  - jadamson 1y ago
    > All the crazy things that have happened in the last 6 months, and this is what has you up in arms. Women talking to each other, trying to protect themselves from assault and rape. Absolutely wild. You have no idea what else he is or isn't up in arms about. Given that the concern is users of this app /making stuff up/, this line is a touch ironic.
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      > You have no idea what else he is or isn't up in arms about. I actually looked back through 6 months worth of their comments. This is the angriest they've been here. > Given that the concern is users of this app /making stuff up/, this line is a touch ironic. I don't know why you would believe that I claimed to know what they're like in their personal life. It seems pretty obvious to me that I'd be referring to their comments here, but consider that point clarified now.