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Rust is a system language, so you should have the control you need. We intend to bring GPU details and APIs into the language and core / std lib, and expose GPU
by LegNeato 1y ago
Rust is a system language, so you should have the control you need. We intend to bring GPU details and APIs into the language and core / std lib, and expose GPU and driver stuff to the `cfg()` system.
(Author here)
- Voultapher 1y agoWho is we here? I'm curious to hear more about your ambitions here, since surly pulling in wgpu or something similar seems out-of-scope for the traditionally lean Rust stdlib.
- LegNeato 1y agoMany of us working on Rust + GPUs in various projects have discussed starting a GPU working group to explore some of these questions: https://gist.github.com/LegNeato/a1fb3e3a9795af05f22920709d92e456 https://gist.github.com/LegNeato/a1fb3e3a9795af05f22920709d9... Agreed, I don't think we'd ever pull in things like wgpu, but we might create APIs or traits wgpu could use to improve perf/safety/ergonomics/interoperability.
- Voultapher 1y agoCool, looking forward to that. It's certainly a good fit for the Rust story overall, given the increasingly heterogenous nature of systems.
- junon 1y agoI'm surprised there isn't already a Rust GPU WG. That'd be incredible.
- jpc0 1y agoHears an idea, Get Nvidia, AMD, Intel and whoever else you can get into a room. Get LLVMs boys into the same room. Compile LLVMIR directly into hardware instructions fed into the GPU, get them to open up. Having to target an API is part of the problem, get them to allow you to write Rust that directly compiles into the code that will run on the GPU, not something that becomes something else, that becomes spirv that controls a driver that will eventually run on the GPU.
- Ygg2 1y agoHell will freeze over, then go into negative Kelvin temperatures before you see nVidia agreeing in earnest to do so. They make too much money on NOT GETTING COMMODITIZED. nVidia even changed CUDA to make API not compatible with interpreters. It's the same reason Safari is in such a sorry state. Why make web browser better, when it could cannibalize your app store?
- jpc0 1y agoSomehow I want to believe if you get everyone else in the room, and it becomes enough of a market force that nvidia stops selling GPUs because of it, they will change. Cough linux gpu drivers
- shmerl 1y agoYeah, Nvidia can get lost with their CUDA moat. But AMD should be interested.
- ashdksnndck 1y agoHmm. Maybe the opportunity would be more like AMD, Intel, and the various AI labs and big tech get together, and by their powers combined figure out a way to stop giving NVIDIA their margin?
- __s 1y agoThey tried. OpenCL, OpenMP
- pjmlp 1y agoBy making Web browser "better" do you mean more ChromeOS like? CUDA is great for Python as well. Maybe Intel and AMD should actually produce something worthwhile using.
- pawelmurias 1y agoBetter for running web apps.
- shmerl 1y agoDo you get any interest from big players like AMD? I'm surprised that they didn't start such initiative, but I guess they can as well back yours.
- LegNeato 1y agoI have not, it is easy to get in touch with me though.
- vouwfietsman 1y ago> Rust is a system language, so you should have the control you need I don't think this argument is promising. Its not about the power of the language, but the power of the abstractions you provide over the various GPU APIs. In fact, I could argue one of the main selling points of Rust (memory safety) has limited applicability in GPU land, because lifetimes are not a thing like they are in CPU land. I'm sure there's other benefits here, not least the tooling, but certainly the language is not the main selling point...
- markman 1y agoI wish I could say that my lack of understanding the contents of this article was just ignorance but unfortunately it makes my brain want to explode. There is a back ended compliment in there somewhere. What I mean is you're a smart mofo.