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This is a very sensible topic ... and sensible topics need careful solutions, not 'let's reinvent a medevial town square's pillory'. Western society has become
by DocTomoe 1y ago
This is a very sensible topic ... and sensible topics need careful solutions, not 'let's reinvent a medevial town square's pillory'.
Western society has become actively anti-dating lately (think: ever since the 1980s). People, especially women, are actively encouraged to scrutinise even minor behaviour for red flags, after all, every man is a potential serial killer. This is so prevalent that we have made movies about that sort of paranoia ... and there are people in treatment over it. Clinically, this is often referred to as hypervigilance/paranoia syndrome, a pattern related to PTSD — both as a consequence of trauma and, paradoxically, as a source of relational dysfunction.
This is not meant to downplay the reality of actual assaults. But it points to a deeper systemic issue: The drive to protect against potential violence has, in some circles, taken on a life of its own - and in doing so, it has poisoned trust.
So - I do not claim your 4 women were not at some point scared by a guy during a date. But what used to be considered 'assertive, reliable, masculine' behaviour in the 1950s has become 'prelude to slaughter' these days, especially when other factors are present (e.g. 'he doesn't turn out to be Prince Charming that I expected' or 'he decided to split the bill').
So ... if there is an actual case of domestic violence, the solution is not to create an instrument that can be badly abused and does not follow rule of law - it is to go to ... law enforcement, and let the courts deal with it. IF the guy is a problem, let them put him away, rather than slandering him online.
- bigfudge 1y agoFor a sense of scale here. One guy had brought a bag of sex toys to a first date. Another called (a different woman) a “dirty bitch” when she declined a second date. Amongst my female friends, I’ve become aware only in my late 40s just how many have suffered sexual assault outside of relationships or controlling and abusive behaviour within them. I guess what I’m saying is that I think women being vigilant is rational behaviour. In my twenties and thirties I just lacked the imagination to see that colleagues and even male friends would behave in this way, but that can and have. I don’t think this site is necessarily the right way to fix the problem, but I can totally understand the motivation.
- DocTomoe 1y agoThank you for providing scale. From how you describe it, these two examples - while unpleasant - likely fall below the threshold for criminal prosecution. And it’s precisely in that gray area where public shaming platforms risk becoming instruments of mob justice. The “sex toy guy” (and yes, I now imagine the most awkward and presumptuous version of that scenario - perhaps with a flourish of presentation) is clearly socially tone-deaf. But if no coercion or violence took place: Should his name and face be broadcast online so he can be branded “The Dildo King” for life? The “dirty bitch” guy? Rude and vulgar, certainly. But how many women have made disparaging comments about men — their height, their hair, their genitals - sometimes in front of them, sometimes with friends? We should strive for dignity and respect on both sides. If we accept social shaming as a norm, it shouldn’t surprise us when the pendulum swings both ways - and no one wins in that world. Was the woman in this case threatened or harmed beyond a verbal outburst? Being in my mid-40s, I’ve also witnessed what a false or misguided accusation can do to a man - careers destroyed, relationships severed, even suicides. What we’re dealing with is a cultural and moral challenge - not a technological one. And cultural problems can only be solved through dialogue, mutual respect, and shared norms - not through factionalism or digital vigilantism.
- saagarjha 1y agoWhat kind of dialogue do you expect to have with these two individuals?
- brailsafe 1y agoFirst: "That makes me deeply uncomfortable, so I'm going to leave" Second: Tough to say, probably nothing if that's the end of the communication. I hear stories pretty regularly of men being misled into taking someone out on the first date, paying for it, and then finding out a second date or anything beyond that was never on the table for one reason or another. It's definitely rude and vulgar, and people should reserve that for special cases.
- jrockway 1y ago
- Yeul 1y agoBefore birth control pills women had to make sure that they were never alone with a man.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]