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They can, but rates of domestic violence are so high that it seems reasonable to want to do something about it. I dated online a few years ago and met my partn

They can, but rates of domestic violence are so high that it seems reasonable to want to do something about it. I dated online a few years ago and met my partner. In that time I met 4 women for dates who talked about really scary behaviour from previous men they’d met. These weren’t even relationships… just dates they’d met for coffee or whatever. These women had no reason to lie or exaggerate to me - and I’d probably prompted the conversation by asking about “how has it been on hinge” or whatever. I think we need to remember throughout all of this just how badly behaved many men are, and how normal misogyny has become.

parineum 1y ago
I'm not disputing any of that but the idea that you can trust what you read on an app like that is the issue. Trust is a hard thing to come by online, even when people aren't anonymous and speaking publicly (Facebook or any other online place where one might use their real name). Giving people the cover of privacy from the person they are reporting about isn't going to increase the veracity of what's posted. We already know how people behave online. It's either naive, ignorant or negligent to think otherwise.
DocTomoe 1y ago
This is a very sensible topic ... and sensible topics need careful solutions, not 'let's reinvent a medevial town square's pillory'. Western society has become actively anti-dating lately (think: ever since the 1980s). People, especially women, are actively encouraged to scrutinise even minor behaviour for red flags, after all, every man is a potential serial killer. This is so prevalent that we have made movies about that sort of paranoia ... and there are people in treatment over it. Clinically, this is often referred to as hypervigilance/paranoia syndrome, a pattern related to PTSD — both as a consequence of trauma and, paradoxically, as a source of relational dysfunction. This is not meant to downplay the reality of actual assaults. But it points to a deeper systemic issue: The drive to protect against potential violence has, in some circles, taken on a life of its own - and in doing so, it has poisoned trust. So - I do not claim your 4 women were not at some point scared by a guy during a date. But what used to be considered 'assertive, reliable, masculine' behaviour in the 1950s has become 'prelude to slaughter' these days, especially when other factors are present (e.g. 'he doesn't turn out to be Prince Charming that I expected' or 'he decided to split the bill'). So ... if there is an actual case of domestic violence, the solution is not to create an instrument that can be badly abused and does not follow rule of law - it is to go to ... law enforcement, and let the courts deal with it. IF the guy is a problem, let them put him away, rather than slandering him online.
- bigfudge 1y ago
  For a sense of scale here. One guy had brought a bag of sex toys to a first date. Another called (a different woman) a “dirty bitch” when she declined a second date. Amongst my female friends, I’ve become aware only in my late 40s just how many have suffered sexual assault outside of relationships or controlling and abusive behaviour within them. I guess what I’m saying is that I think women being vigilant is rational behaviour. In my twenties and thirties I just lacked the imagination to see that colleagues and even male friends would behave in this way, but that can and have. I don’t think this site is necessarily the right way to fix the problem, but I can totally understand the motivation.
  - DocTomoe 1y ago
    Thank you for providing scale. From how you describe it, these two examples - while unpleasant - likely fall below the threshold for criminal prosecution. And it’s precisely in that gray area where public shaming platforms risk becoming instruments of mob justice. The “sex toy guy” (and yes, I now imagine the most awkward and presumptuous version of that scenario - perhaps with a flourish of presentation) is clearly socially tone-deaf. But if no coercion or violence took place: Should his name and face be broadcast online so he can be branded “The Dildo King” for life? The “dirty bitch” guy? Rude and vulgar, certainly. But how many women have made disparaging comments about men — their height, their hair, their genitals - sometimes in front of them, sometimes with friends? We should strive for dignity and respect on both sides. If we accept social shaming as a norm, it shouldn’t surprise us when the pendulum swings both ways - and no one wins in that world. Was the woman in this case threatened or harmed beyond a verbal outburst? Being in my mid-40s, I’ve also witnessed what a false or misguided accusation can do to a man - careers destroyed, relationships severed, even suicides. What we’re dealing with is a cultural and moral challenge - not a technological one. And cultural problems can only be solved through dialogue, mutual respect, and shared norms - not through factionalism or digital vigilantism.
    - saagarjha 1y ago
      What kind of dialogue do you expect to have with these two individuals?
madaxe_again 1y ago
I’m a guy. I was stabbed by one ex, while she was drunk, dated another girl for a year only for her to suddenly drop the “my boyfriend in the army is coming home” bombshell, and had another relationship that turned into violence and stalking. I think we need to remember that this isn’t a one-way street.
- oguz-ismail 1y ago
  That's some luck you got there
- boroboro4 1y ago
  Of course it’s not, but it’s highly asymmetrical. It’s especially asymmetrical around physical violence and physical vulnerability of women.
  - huhkerrf 1y ago
    > In New Zealand, the twenty-one year Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study, published in 1999, reported that of their sample of 1,037 people, 27% of women and 34% of men reported being physically abused by a partner, with 37% of women and 22% of men reporting they had perpetrated intimate partner violence. > A growing body of international research indicated that men and women experience Intimate partner violence in some similar proportions. An example might be a recent survey from Canada's national statistical agency that concluded that "equal proportions of men and women reported being victims of spousal violence during the preceding 5 years (4% respectively)." > The aforementioned surveys indicate that small proportions of men (less than 20% of victims) will tell the police or a health professional about their victimization. This may be due to well-grounded fears that they will be scorned, ridiculed, or disbelieved by these authorities. Your point that it's "highly asymmetrical" is just wrong. > Indeed, a recent research paper by Dr. Elizabeth Bates from the University of Cumbria found that the overarching experience of male IPV victims was that "no one would ever believe me." And it directly contributes to the toxic attitude around male victims of domestic violence.
    - 1y ago

parineum 1y ago

I'm not disputing any of that but the idea that you can trust what you read on an app like that is the issue. Trust is a hard thing to come by online, even when people aren't anonymous and speaking publicly (Facebook or any other online place where one might use their real name). Giving people the cover of privacy from the person they are reporting about isn't going to increase the veracity of what's posted. We already know how people behave online. It's either naive, ignorant or negligent to think otherwise.

DocTomoe 1y ago

This is a very sensible topic ... and sensible topics need careful solutions, not 'let's reinvent a medevial town square's pillory'. Western society has become actively anti-dating lately (think: ever since the 1980s). People, especially women, are actively encouraged to scrutinise even minor behaviour for red flags, after all, every man is a potential serial killer. This is so prevalent that we have made movies about that sort of paranoia ... and there are people in treatment over it. Clinically, this is often referred to as hypervigilance/paranoia syndrome, a pattern related to PTSD — both as a consequence of trauma and, paradoxically, as a source of relational dysfunction. This is not meant to downplay the reality of actual assaults. But it points to a deeper systemic issue: The drive to protect against potential violence has, in some circles, taken on a life of its own - and in doing so, it has poisoned trust. So - I do not claim your 4 women were not at some point scared by a guy during a date. But what used to be considered 'assertive, reliable, masculine' behaviour in the 1950s has become 'prelude to slaughter' these days, especially when other factors are present (e.g. 'he doesn't turn out to be Prince Charming that I expected' or 'he decided to split the bill'). So ... if there is an actual case of domestic violence, the solution is not to create an instrument that can be badly abused and does not follow rule of law - it is to go to ... law enforcement, and let the courts deal with it. IF the guy is a problem, let them put him away, rather than slandering him online.

bigfudge 1y ago
For a sense of scale here. One guy had brought a bag of sex toys to a first date. Another called (a different woman) a “dirty bitch” when she declined a second date. Amongst my female friends, I’ve become aware only in my late 40s just how many have suffered sexual assault outside of relationships or controlling and abusive behaviour within them. I guess what I’m saying is that I think women being vigilant is rational behaviour. In my twenties and thirties I just lacked the imagination to see that colleagues and even male friends would behave in this way, but that can and have. I don’t think this site is necessarily the right way to fix the problem, but I can totally understand the motivation.
- DocTomoe 1y ago
  Thank you for providing scale. From how you describe it, these two examples - while unpleasant - likely fall below the threshold for criminal prosecution. And it’s precisely in that gray area where public shaming platforms risk becoming instruments of mob justice. The “sex toy guy” (and yes, I now imagine the most awkward and presumptuous version of that scenario - perhaps with a flourish of presentation) is clearly socially tone-deaf. But if no coercion or violence took place: Should his name and face be broadcast online so he can be branded “The Dildo King” for life? The “dirty bitch” guy? Rude and vulgar, certainly. But how many women have made disparaging comments about men — their height, their hair, their genitals - sometimes in front of them, sometimes with friends? We should strive for dignity and respect on both sides. If we accept social shaming as a norm, it shouldn’t surprise us when the pendulum swings both ways - and no one wins in that world. Was the woman in this case threatened or harmed beyond a verbal outburst? Being in my mid-40s, I’ve also witnessed what a false or misguided accusation can do to a man - careers destroyed, relationships severed, even suicides. What we’re dealing with is a cultural and moral challenge - not a technological one. And cultural problems can only be solved through dialogue, mutual respect, and shared norms - not through factionalism or digital vigilantism.
  - saagarjha 1y ago
    What kind of dialogue do you expect to have with these two individuals?

madaxe_again 1y ago

I’m a guy. I was stabbed by one ex, while she was drunk, dated another girl for a year only for her to suddenly drop the “my boyfriend in the army is coming home” bombshell, and had another relationship that turned into violence and stalking. I think we need to remember that this isn’t a one-way street.

oguz-ismail 1y ago
That's some luck you got there
boroboro4 1y ago
Of course it’s not, but it’s highly asymmetrical. It’s especially asymmetrical around physical violence and physical vulnerability of women.
- huhkerrf 1y ago
  > In New Zealand, the twenty-one year Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health and Development Study, published in 1999, reported that of their sample of 1,037 people, 27% of women and 34% of men reported being physically abused by a partner, with 37% of women and 22% of men reporting they had perpetrated intimate partner violence. > A growing body of international research indicated that men and women experience Intimate partner violence in some similar proportions. An example might be a recent survey from Canada's national statistical agency that concluded that "equal proportions of men and women reported being victims of spousal violence during the preceding 5 years (4% respectively)." > The aforementioned surveys indicate that small proportions of men (less than 20% of victims) will tell the police or a health professional about their victimization. This may be due to well-grounded fears that they will be scorned, ridiculed, or disbelieved by these authorities. Your point that it's "highly asymmetrical" is just wrong. > Indeed, a recent research paper by Dr. Elizabeth Bates from the University of Cumbria found that the overarching experience of male IPV victims was that "no one would ever believe me." And it directly contributes to the toxic attitude around male victims of domestic violence.
  - 1y ago