5 ms·

Rolling eyes Another person mixing up web apps with web sites. We do need frameworks for web apps. Yes people were wrongly making websites using frameworks.

by ozim 1y ago

Rolling eyes Another person mixing up web apps with web sites. We do need frameworks for web apps. Yes people were wrongly making websites using frameworks. But I am busy building web apps and without frameworks it is not feasible to build one.

andix 1y ago
Exactly. I remember the times when webmail clients were SSR applications. Roundcube and Gmail were game changers. Webmail finally felt smooth and usable. Web shops are somewhere in the middle, they need a little bit of interactivity for the cart, especially if the user opens multiple tabs. But static websites should never be SPAs.
austin-cheney 1y ago
You really don’t need the frameworks for web apps either.
- andix 1y ago
  I guess you never worked on a complicated web app that was 100% jQuery, because web frameworks were not a thing yet.
  - ozim 1y ago
    Second that. Add to it dev churn each 6 months one dev leaves an new joins full of fresh new ideas how to jquery. In the meantime also 2 freelancers adding their stuff.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    I did, around 15 years ago. It was honestly not that bad.
    - ozim 1y ago
      How many people did you have on your team? What was employee turn over on the project? How long was the development?
  - cweagans 1y ago
    What if I told you that you didn't need jQuery either.
    - andix 1y ago
      Using the DOM APIs directly? Please do that. Have fun!
      - austin-cheney 1y ago
        I do it and its just not significant. You should try it before evoking a holy war against it.
      - cweagans 1y ago
        What if I told you that you didn’t even really need javascript for most things - even more involved web apps. HTML and CSS is plenty for many things.
  - austin-cheney 1y ago
    I was a JavaScript developer for about 15 years and I moved onto something else because most of the people doing the work can't program. Not at all. I got tired of being held hostage by people who couldn't function without more help than they needed. I also get tired of the arguments from ignorance. The you don't know how hard life is type of bullshit arguments. I do know because I have done this work, probably much longer than you, and its not as challenging as you are claiming.

by ozim 1y ago

andix 1y ago

Exactly. I remember the times when webmail clients were SSR applications. Roundcube and Gmail were game changers. Webmail finally felt smooth and usable. Web shops are somewhere in the middle, they need a little bit of interactivity for the cart, especially if the user opens multiple tabs. But static websites should never be SPAs.

austin-cheney 1y ago

You really don’t need the frameworks for web apps either.

andix 1y ago
I guess you never worked on a complicated web app that was 100% jQuery, because web frameworks were not a thing yet.
- ozim 1y ago
  Second that. Add to it dev churn each 6 months one dev leaves an new joins full of fresh new ideas how to jquery. In the meantime also 2 freelancers adding their stuff.
- zahlman 1y ago
  I did, around 15 years ago. It was honestly not that bad.
  - ozim 1y ago
    How many people did you have on your team? What was employee turn over on the project? How long was the development?
- cweagans 1y ago
  What if I told you that you didn't need jQuery either.
  - andix 1y ago
    Using the DOM APIs directly? Please do that. Have fun!
    - austin-cheney 1y ago
      I do it and its just not significant. You should try it before evoking a holy war against it.
    - cweagans 1y ago
      What if I told you that you didn’t even really need javascript for most things - even more involved web apps. HTML and CSS is plenty for many things.
- austin-cheney 1y ago
  I was a JavaScript developer for about 15 years and I moved onto something else because most of the people doing the work can't program. Not at all. I got tired of being held hostage by people who couldn't function without more help than they needed. I also get tired of the arguments from ignorance. The you don't know how hard life is type of bullshit arguments. I do know because I have done this work, probably much longer than you, and its not as challenging as you are claiming.