3 ms·

This is like King Canute and the tide. Technical pedantry is often interesting, as this is, and can lead to deeper understanding, though this doesn’t. But lan

This is like King Canute and the tide. Technical pedantry is often interesting, as this is, and can lead to deeper understanding, though this doesn’t. But language is for communication, and the most correct language is that which communicates best. A conversation burdened with “well actually” tangents about one participant’s personal passion gets pretty tiresome.

dogleash 1y ago
Being on the sharp edge of professional "do you want what you're asking for, or what I assume you want?" misunderstandings, you learn that it breaks in both directions often enough that sometimes not being pedantic up front isn't an option. I don't think shittalking "well actually" conversations in the context of an equipment vendor making a cutely-titled article that is very sympathetic to the inexact language around designators for products they offer is the play.
- tetha 1y ago
  This is why I've learned to present people with the concrete consequences and results of their service request. Especially if I get the feeling that someone does not comprehend what they are asking for. "Your service request will result in X hours of downtime, as well as ireversible data loss between T1 and T2, and a reset of your system back to the state it was in at T1. All changes and interactions after T1 will be lost. Is this what you expect and want?" Beyond a certain amount of service disruption or monetary investment, asking twice and making sure is prudent, not pedantic.
- xp84 1y ago
  In this case, is it that helpful? Since only a lunatic would want a true DB9 and no one’s ever made a giant connector with 9 pins, I fail to see the importance.
- Affric 1y ago
  Gotta love that sharp edge. Nothing saves money like a good well actually.
- spauldo 1y ago
  Normally I agree. The only time I ever raised my voice at a subordinate was because they were consistently lax and inaccurate with technical details. Things like mixing up C and C++ in conversations where it mattered. But things like DB9 and RJ45 are so commonly used that anyone taking them literally is either being obstinate or are completely new to the field.
aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> But language is for communication, and the most correct language is that which communicates best. This seems to be biased in US-American culture. In Germany, people are in my observation much more prone to analyze words and sentences (often by their origins), and many people wouldn't accept a "wrong" way to express things to be correct. Just to give one example (which also works in English): "[die] Alternative" (the alternative): this word comes from Latin "alter, altera, alterum" (the other). This means, that there exists only one other. So educated people love to point out that talking of multiple "Alternativen" [alternatives] is wrong; by the word origin there can only exist one alternative (the other one). If more than one "alternatives" exist, so, to be precise, you likely want to use a different word.
- UncleSlacky 1y ago
  "(The/an) alternate" is probably the ahem _alternative_ term you're looking for...
  - aleph_minus_one 1y ago
    I am not a native English speaker, so I honestly was not aware of this English word. Addendum: nevertheless: "alternate" is also derived fron "alter, altera, alterum" (the other one), so my point above still holds.
- horsawlarway 1y ago
  I think this implies a meaning of "the" that doesn't actually exist in modern english. "The" often refers to a group or category. "The other" is actually a phrase I would take to be incredibly inclusive in meaning if not followed by another specifier (it means "the category of everything that is not us"). "The alternative" is similarly a category structure. It's a singular category, made of many possible members, or alternatives. You may still only pick a single alternate for each case, but that does not mean that a category of multiple possible alternative choices does not exist. --- All that said, sparkfun is messing up by labeling this DE9. Spoken as someone who's done quite a bit of serial communication work. The defacto industry term is DB9, whether they like it or not, and most searching/purchasing will be done using that term. This is a "technically correct" fun article, with a name that would immediately mean I don't ever find this product (and would not purchase this product) unless they highlight that this is a DB9 breakout board with a bad name. Simple test? Amazon has more than 4000 results for "db9 cable" and only ~110 results for "de9" cable. Even specialty sites like McMaster, which are usually pretty particular with their terms are happily calling this a db9 connector: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/connectors/computer-connection-type~db9/ https://www.mcmaster.com/products/connectors/computer-connec...
csours 1y ago
It depends on context. If you're working from a document that is otherwise correct, and you come across a mistake like this, it's worth checking. In casual language, sure, whatever.

dogleash 1y ago

Being on the sharp edge of professional "do you want what you're asking for, or what I assume you want?" misunderstandings, you learn that it breaks in both directions often enough that sometimes not being pedantic up front isn't an option. I don't think shittalking "well actually" conversations in the context of an equipment vendor making a cutely-titled article that is very sympathetic to the inexact language around designators for products they offer is the play.

tetha 1y ago
This is why I've learned to present people with the concrete consequences and results of their service request. Especially if I get the feeling that someone does not comprehend what they are asking for. "Your service request will result in X hours of downtime, as well as ireversible data loss between T1 and T2, and a reset of your system back to the state it was in at T1. All changes and interactions after T1 will be lost. Is this what you expect and want?" Beyond a certain amount of service disruption or monetary investment, asking twice and making sure is prudent, not pedantic.
xp84 1y ago
In this case, is it that helpful? Since only a lunatic would want a true DB9 and no one’s ever made a giant connector with 9 pins, I fail to see the importance.
Affric 1y ago
Gotta love that sharp edge. Nothing saves money like a good well actually.
spauldo 1y ago
Normally I agree. The only time I ever raised my voice at a subordinate was because they were consistently lax and inaccurate with technical details. Things like mixing up C and C++ in conversations where it mattered. But things like DB9 and RJ45 are so commonly used that anyone taking them literally is either being obstinate or are completely new to the field.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago

> But language is for communication, and the most correct language is that which communicates best. This seems to be biased in US-American culture. In Germany, people are in my observation much more prone to analyze words and sentences (often by their origins), and many people wouldn't accept a "wrong" way to express things to be correct. Just to give one example (which also works in English): "[die] Alternative" (the alternative): this word comes from Latin "alter, altera, alterum" (the other). This means, that there exists only one other. So educated people love to point out that talking of multiple "Alternativen" [alternatives] is wrong; by the word origin there can only exist one alternative (the other one). If more than one "alternatives" exist, so, to be precise, you likely want to use a different word.

UncleSlacky 1y ago
"(The/an) alternate" is probably the ahem _alternative_ term you're looking for...
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  I am not a native English speaker, so I honestly was not aware of this English word. Addendum: nevertheless: "alternate" is also derived fron "alter, altera, alterum" (the other one), so my point above still holds.
horsawlarway 1y ago
I think this implies a meaning of "the" that doesn't actually exist in modern english. "The" often refers to a group or category. "The other" is actually a phrase I would take to be incredibly inclusive in meaning if not followed by another specifier (it means "the category of everything that is not us"). "The alternative" is similarly a category structure. It's a singular category, made of many possible members, or alternatives. You may still only pick a single alternate for each case, but that does not mean that a category of multiple possible alternative choices does not exist. --- All that said, sparkfun is messing up by labeling this DE9. Spoken as someone who's done quite a bit of serial communication work. The defacto industry term is DB9, whether they like it or not, and most searching/purchasing will be done using that term. This is a "technically correct" fun article, with a name that would immediately mean I don't ever find this product (and would not purchase this product) unless they highlight that this is a DB9 breakout board with a bad name. Simple test? Amazon has more than 4000 results for "db9 cable" and only ~110 results for "de9" cable. Even specialty sites like McMaster, which are usually pretty particular with their terms are happily calling this a db9 connector: https://www.mcmaster.com/products/connectors/computer-connection-type~db9/ https://www.mcmaster.com/products/connectors/computer-connec...

csours 1y ago

It depends on context. If you're working from a document that is otherwise correct, and you come across a mistake like this, it's worth checking. In casual language, sure, whatever.