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> The Linux desktop has been wildly successful! Hobbyists have been using it since the 1990s. Yahoo! was built using the linux desktop. Much of Facebook was, to

by mbell 14y ago

> The Linux desktop has been wildly successful! Hobbyists have been using it since the 1990s. Yahoo! was built using the linux desktop. Much of Facebook was, too. People in web dev and tech support use it as their workstation OS. While true, look around at younger companies, OS X has taken over a very large segment of the web dev crowd and I don't see any signs of that changing, especially with the almost mandatory nature of using OSX for iOS development.

zanny 14y ago
This is entirely brand. I went through college where all the cool kids had overpriced shiny aluminum macs and that was the hip thing to own. Having used OSX on laptops in High School and IMacs in college the desktop is awful and I much prefer the diversity of Linux DEs, especially ones like Cinnamon and XFCE. OSX got its market share off spoiled 20 year old college kids getting their parents to buy them overpriced trendy hardware. I have a 15 year old and 13 year cousin who each have a macbook because its hip. But besides the hip factor, OSX succeeds because it is the default on Apple products, where Windows succeeds because it is the default on everything else. When average Joe buys a pc, they go to best buy, and every single device has Windows on it, so they use that. They don't know any better and would never fathom installing an OS, and if you show an alternative to them it breaks their minds because it is universe breaking that Windows isn't the computer.
- untog 14y ago
  "the desktop is awful and I much prefer the diversity of Linux DEs [...] OSX got its market share off spoiled 20 year old college kids getting their parents to buy them overpriced trendy hardware." Sigh. Stop stating your opinion as fact. Personally, I use OSX because it's a *nix OS that actually has a coherent UI, and it's paired with the best hardware available right now. Saying that it's popular because it's trendy is wildly misguided- how do you explain all the developers that use it?
  - zanny 14y ago
    I said the market share came from college kids. I honestly never understand how developers use it, but I can understand smart people find value in it I don't. But don't ignore the fact that the Mac rose to prosperty not through its developer tools but through appealing to a younger generation with access to money a desire to look cool, because they hit that ball out of the park from my experiences, not my opinion.
  - CountSessine 14y ago
    But don't ignore the fact that the Mac rose to prosperty [..] through appealing to a younger generation with access to money a desire to look cool, because they hit that ball out of the park from my experiences, not my opinion I'm glad it isn't your opinion, because you'd be wrong again. Mac owners, by age, are actually older on average than PC/Windows users. http://www.metafacts.com/pages/media/tupan06_announce_061129.htm http://www.metafacts.com/pages/media/tupan06_announce_061129... As an embedded systems developer, who works in a company filled with EEs using OSX for their personal machines, I can say that what keeps me buying macs is that * Like Linux, OSX is posix and has a working shell and scripting environment, and * Like Windows, it has a pixel-perfect window manager and a tastefully designed UI that doesn't make my eyes bleed.
  - old-gregg 14y ago
    Saying that it's popular because it's trendy is wildly misguided- how do you explain all the developers that use it? Trendy, popular, whatever... The original comment is spot on. Products becomes trendy and popular mostly because of great marketing. The reason you prefer OSX (or almost anything else in your life) is because you've been conditioned to. We make decisions based on a complex cocktail of facts and feelings, most of them external to our own thinking and, therefore, susceptible to clever manipulation. Every BMW owner buys an "ultimate driving machine" (with an automatic transmission) and most OSX users believe they're enjoying "the best UI/UX" (and obediently squeeze their life into ~500 vertical pixels leaving the rest to the Dock and global menu). It does not make sense to look for a technical explanation for why "Linux desktop" is not popular. Technology has nothing to do with popularity. Moreover, Linux Desktop is indeed widely popular among people who're pre-conditioned to like things it offers. Here's an anecdote: I have introduced younger relatives to computers in mid-2000s using only Ubuntu. After years of daily Gnome 2.x use they find both OSX and Windows incredibly "retarded" and hard to use. Don't kid yourself thinking we're far ahead of Pavlov dogs.
- mbell 14y ago
  I completely disagree within the confines of developers. I'm not really sure what the comments about consumers have to do with this topic. I used linux for 5 years as a desktop OS, skipped in between windows occasionally. Just recently switched to a mac. It has nothing to do with being hip. OS X is an OS which runs all the *nix tools I need, has a reasonable well thought out UI and above all it __just works__. Its what I wish linux on a desktop could have been but never was and I doubt ever will be.
  - bad_user 14y ago
    If by just works you mean that you have to deal with abominations like MacPorts or Homebrew, then yeah, but personally I cannot deal with all that crap, so Ubuntu is the one that just works for me.
    - euroclydon 14y ago
      I agree. It really is a pain to build OSS on the Mac, and it's not like you'd ever deploy server software to a Mac.
      - dedward 14y ago
        Not such a pain once you figure it out... And for any of us compiling stuff... seriously, are we pretending we don't all use remote linux slices/machines/whatever all over the place? My laptops are just workstations to do day-to-day life stuff and a portal into my virtual computer world, where I'm working with remote displays, browser windows, command lines all over, and all that jazz. If it's anything remotely server related that needs to be on all the time, I'm likely not running it on my laptop anyway - it'll be on a linux box somewhere. Or, if I'm on the move and it's really important to get a project done, a local VM on the little macbook.
    - jburwell 14y ago
      How is Homebrew any different from than apt? Both are package managers. Neither OS provides all of the tools a dev needs, so regardless of your OS choice, you will using a package manager to acquire your complete toolset. So, why do you recoil at Homebrew, and not apt?
- fdr 14y ago
  It is not entirely brand. For me, I only begrudgingly use a Macintosh laptop because it is better for someone who doesn't want to fiddle, now or in future releases of their distribution. At this point given the length of time I've stuck with it I can probably be considered a Linux-on-Workstation die-hard (I have one at work and at home that I use for most Serious Tasks), and I am pretty fed up to have given up on Ubuntu on laptops: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4451792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4451792 And the meat of my complaints have nothing to do with UI, but the endless finicky regressions, typically having to do with drivers and hardware integrations. Anecdote: my friend and co-worker has an allegedly 'good' piece of Lenovo Thinkpad hardware. He still managed to have a problem on a video driver upgrade on 32-bit (he then switched to 64-bit, where things went better -- did I mention Ubuntu's home page still suggests 32-bit Linux?) and hasn't gotten around to convincing it to talk to an external monitor. He has more patience than me -- mostly out of philosophical stubbornness -- although I suppose we both are stubborn in a way since I'm still buying desktops at every location I work frequently in 2012, and regressed to a Macintosh to fill in the gaps when moving about. It is a disaster.
- akldfgj 14y ago
  What computer less expensive than an iBook or Macbook commonly survives 4 years of school, and is less a disaster than Windows pre-7 (which I guess is old now, wow time flies)? My MBP is 5 years old and still runs OK. (It could use battery #3 and an SSD replacement, though.)
  - zanny 14y ago
    I actually encountered a Toshiba Satellite circa 2002 a few months ago with a Pentium 4 that was running fine and the HD didn't even have any smart sensor malignities. The thing ran slower than dirt, but worked fine.
lifeguard 14y ago
It has been my experience graphic designers use Apple's OS du jour and hackers are split between Linux and OS X.

by mbell 14y ago

zanny 14y ago

This is entirely brand. I went through college where all the cool kids had overpriced shiny aluminum macs and that was the hip thing to own. Having used OSX on laptops in High School and IMacs in college the desktop is awful and I much prefer the diversity of Linux DEs, especially ones like Cinnamon and XFCE. OSX got its market share off spoiled 20 year old college kids getting their parents to buy them overpriced trendy hardware. I have a 15 year old and 13 year cousin who each have a macbook because its hip. But besides the hip factor, OSX succeeds because it is the default on Apple products, where Windows succeeds because it is the default on everything else. When average Joe buys a pc, they go to best buy, and every single device has Windows on it, so they use that. They don't know any better and would never fathom installing an OS, and if you show an alternative to them it breaks their minds because it is universe breaking that Windows isn't the computer.

untog 14y ago
"the desktop is awful and I much prefer the diversity of Linux DEs [...] OSX got its market share off spoiled 20 year old college kids getting their parents to buy them overpriced trendy hardware." Sigh. Stop stating your opinion as fact. Personally, I use OSX because it's a *nix OS that actually has a coherent UI, and it's paired with the best hardware available right now. Saying that it's popular because it's trendy is wildly misguided- how do you explain all the developers that use it?
- zanny 14y ago
  I said the market share came from college kids. I honestly never understand how developers use it, but I can understand smart people find value in it I don't. But don't ignore the fact that the Mac rose to prosperty not through its developer tools but through appealing to a younger generation with access to money a desire to look cool, because they hit that ball out of the park from my experiences, not my opinion.
- CountSessine 14y ago
  But don't ignore the fact that the Mac rose to prosperty [..] through appealing to a younger generation with access to money a desire to look cool, because they hit that ball out of the park from my experiences, not my opinion I'm glad it isn't your opinion, because you'd be wrong again. Mac owners, by age, are actually older on average than PC/Windows users. http://www.metafacts.com/pages/media/tupan06_announce_061129.htm http://www.metafacts.com/pages/media/tupan06_announce_061129... As an embedded systems developer, who works in a company filled with EEs using OSX for their personal machines, I can say that what keeps me buying macs is that * Like Linux, OSX is posix and has a working shell and scripting environment, and * Like Windows, it has a pixel-perfect window manager and a tastefully designed UI that doesn't make my eyes bleed.
- old-gregg 14y ago
  Saying that it's popular because it's trendy is wildly misguided- how do you explain all the developers that use it? Trendy, popular, whatever... The original comment is spot on. Products becomes trendy and popular mostly because of great marketing. The reason you prefer OSX (or almost anything else in your life) is because you've been conditioned to. We make decisions based on a complex cocktail of facts and feelings, most of them external to our own thinking and, therefore, susceptible to clever manipulation. Every BMW owner buys an "ultimate driving machine" (with an automatic transmission) and most OSX users believe they're enjoying "the best UI/UX" (and obediently squeeze their life into ~500 vertical pixels leaving the rest to the Dock and global menu). It does not make sense to look for a technical explanation for why "Linux desktop" is not popular. Technology has nothing to do with popularity. Moreover, Linux Desktop is indeed widely popular among people who're pre-conditioned to like things it offers. Here's an anecdote: I have introduced younger relatives to computers in mid-2000s using only Ubuntu. After years of daily Gnome 2.x use they find both OSX and Windows incredibly "retarded" and hard to use. Don't kid yourself thinking we're far ahead of Pavlov dogs.
mbell 14y ago
I completely disagree within the confines of developers. I'm not really sure what the comments about consumers have to do with this topic. I used linux for 5 years as a desktop OS, skipped in between windows occasionally. Just recently switched to a mac. It has nothing to do with being hip. OS X is an OS which runs all the *nix tools I need, has a reasonable well thought out UI and above all it __just works__. Its what I wish linux on a desktop could have been but never was and I doubt ever will be.
- bad_user 14y ago
  If by just works you mean that you have to deal with abominations like MacPorts or Homebrew, then yeah, but personally I cannot deal with all that crap, so Ubuntu is the one that just works for me.
  - euroclydon 14y ago
    I agree. It really is a pain to build OSS on the Mac, and it's not like you'd ever deploy server software to a Mac.
    - dedward 14y ago
      Not such a pain once you figure it out... And for any of us compiling stuff... seriously, are we pretending we don't all use remote linux slices/machines/whatever all over the place? My laptops are just workstations to do day-to-day life stuff and a portal into my virtual computer world, where I'm working with remote displays, browser windows, command lines all over, and all that jazz. If it's anything remotely server related that needs to be on all the time, I'm likely not running it on my laptop anyway - it'll be on a linux box somewhere. Or, if I'm on the move and it's really important to get a project done, a local VM on the little macbook.
  - jburwell 14y ago
    How is Homebrew any different from than apt? Both are package managers. Neither OS provides all of the tools a dev needs, so regardless of your OS choice, you will using a package manager to acquire your complete toolset. So, why do you recoil at Homebrew, and not apt?
fdr 14y ago
It is not entirely brand. For me, I only begrudgingly use a Macintosh laptop because it is better for someone who doesn't want to fiddle, now or in future releases of their distribution. At this point given the length of time I've stuck with it I can probably be considered a Linux-on-Workstation die-hard (I have one at work and at home that I use for most Serious Tasks), and I am pretty fed up to have given up on Ubuntu on laptops: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4451792 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4451792 And the meat of my complaints have nothing to do with UI, but the endless finicky regressions, typically having to do with drivers and hardware integrations. Anecdote: my friend and co-worker has an allegedly 'good' piece of Lenovo Thinkpad hardware. He still managed to have a problem on a video driver upgrade on 32-bit (he then switched to 64-bit, where things went better -- did I mention Ubuntu's home page still suggests 32-bit Linux?) and hasn't gotten around to convincing it to talk to an external monitor. He has more patience than me -- mostly out of philosophical stubbornness -- although I suppose we both are stubborn in a way since I'm still buying desktops at every location I work frequently in 2012, and regressed to a Macintosh to fill in the gaps when moving about. It is a disaster.
akldfgj 14y ago
What computer less expensive than an iBook or Macbook commonly survives 4 years of school, and is less a disaster than Windows pre-7 (which I guess is old now, wow time flies)? My MBP is 5 years old and still runs OK. (It could use battery #3 and an SSD replacement, though.)
- zanny 14y ago
  I actually encountered a Toshiba Satellite circa 2002 a few months ago with a Pentium 4 that was running fine and the HD didn't even have any smart sensor malignities. The thing ran slower than dirt, but worked fine.

lifeguard 14y ago

It has been my experience graphic designers use Apple's OS du jour and hackers are split between Linux and OS X.