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Right , just to remind that China is the country that supports Proxy wars with west ( Ukraine ), supports Iran , a country that placed tariffs on whole industri

by maxdo 1y ago

Right , just to remind that China is the country that supports Proxy wars with west ( Ukraine ), supports Iran , a country that placed tariffs on whole industries, like cars, software , spy and buy technology to replace anything advanced. A country willing to cut mineral supply anytime they don’t like anything is good partner and friend of EU , lol, how delusional someone can be ? Even current US Administration sends Patriots and military support to Ukraine, while China is sponsoring WAR, help Russia to keep up with war killing people around the world. China can end that war in 1 week if they really want. US spent fortune to protect collective west while countries like Germany almost dismantled their army in the past. Very rational thinking , sure. China will wipe out entire west with technological superiority in the next decade or two without west being united.

rfrey 1y ago
> without west being united If that is true, perhaps the US should stop destroying the western alliance.
- maxdo 1y ago
  perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. Europe is involved in a proxy war of China vs US. where EU associate member is fighting with china proxy, Russia. Other proxies are Iran with their satelites, without china neither Iran or Russia would not survive current wars they sponsor agaist west. as much as I hate current US admin, they push to increase NATO spending etc. how is that not "uniting" ?
  - motorest 1y ago
    > perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. You haven't been paying attention. Even to this thread. Let me be very clear: The US proved to be a very unreliable and outright hostile partner. At this point, it is not clear whether the US is more hostile to the collective west than the likes of China. Therefore, let the US keep their backyard TSMC. It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. That is the wake-up call.
    - rob_c 1y ago
      > It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. Tariffs or no the US wants back in on the construction/manufacturing industry. This is something that should be seen as a good thing. I just wish the EU was so visionary but we're worried about recycling plastics (when we don't use the plastic) or curtailing bad think (rather than open dialogue)...
      - motorest 1y ago
        > Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic.
        rob_c 1y ago
        Basically NATO partners are only suffering from less sales info the US pocket. The US pocket is weakening to allow the US to begin manufacturing. The tarrif "war" for what it is will see an excess of products not sold to the US markets. The US will not invade. It's a pr move. Frankly if you're bothered with that let's talk about Hawaii and Alaska (or several international trade routes). There's plenty of opportunity that doesn't involve bowing to the petrol dollar and becoming subservient and maybe that can even be done without importing half of the developing world. Don't call people pathetic unless you're actually equipped to engage in conversation. It's demeaning to yourself and is no better than demanding things change for your feelings. Being absolutist is just giving up your ability to take action and control your own life. The biggest victim is yourself and it only hurts others. Take action. Do something and move on with life. Stop being paralyzed by the media left/right/alt/mainstream/pink-lizard-bunny. Go touch grass and be happy.
        rfrey 1y ago
        You keep isolating the discussion to tariffs, and ignoring the US hostility to former allies, including threatening to invade two NATO members, as well as US support for Russia against the west in active wars. Tariffs can be a reasonable policy (although not when implemented like this... rejuvenating manufacturing by imposing huge tariffs on raw materials? Really?) but when people talk about the US abandoning the western democracies they're not talking exclusively or even primarily about tariffs. Saying the equivalent of "Oh, that's just Trump talk" is nonsense. Everybody thought Trump's support for Russia was just talk. He's deployed active military on US soil. He's ignored the judiciary and is progressively neutering them. All that was "just Trump being Trump" before he did it. The man is a mad king and half of America is happy to follow him for the lolz.
  - rfrey 1y ago
    Your country has threatened, out of nowhere, to annex my country - until now America's oldest and most steadfast ally - or failing that to destroy our economy until we capitulate. I do not feel united. And, echoing you, how is that not unreliable?
motorest 1y ago
> Right , just to remind that China is the country that supports Proxy wars with west (...) The current US administration directly and very overtly threatens two NATO members with invasion and annexation. I personally can't interpret Trump administration's insistence on supporting Russia on all fronts alongside its enthusiastic push to completely cut military support for Ukraine as anything other than something far more damaging to the collective west's protection than whatever support China or even North Korea is providing to Russia. There is no way to spin this: the US is the biggest threat to the collective west, not only by reneging on their obligations towards their allies in general and NATO in particular but also by it's clear and very overt threats.
- rob_c 1y ago
  Grow up. The US is posturing compared to China that puts boots on the ground and fires at ships belonging to "allies".
- vimy 1y ago
  China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. The Russians won't stop in Ukraine. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. > Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat that Beijing can’t accept Russia losing its war against Ukraine as this could allow the United States to turn its full attention to China, an official briefed on the talks said, contradicting Beijing’s public position of neutrality in the conflict. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/04/europe/china-ukraine-eu-war-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/04/europe/china-ukraine-eu-w...
  - motorest 1y ago
    > China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. The Trump administration is overtly cutting support from Ukraine while pressuring Ukraine to capitulate to Russia. At the same time it's also pushing for sanctions to be lifted and economic times with Russia to be normalized. Trump went to the extreme of pressuring the G7 to admit back Russia. What do you call that? China supporting glorified golf cars doesn't hold a candle to the damage that the US has done to peace in Europe and the collective west's interests in security.
selimthegrim 1y ago
>collective west Rossiya-1 viewer/bot sighted
Crestwave 1y ago
The US has committed more than its fair share of war crimes and notably even voted against the 2025 UN resolution condemning Russia for the Ukraine invasion, while China abstained from the vote. China may potentially be able to stop the war, but at what cost? They've been licking their wounds and rebuilding their nation at breakneck speed for the past century, and it's only recently that they've finally reached a critical stage with innovations on all fronts. Going against one of their two allies now would be pretty ill-advised. The US has also been very erratic, while China's current goals seem to be fairly consistent: reclaim everything they lost during the century of humiliation.

by maxdo 1y ago

rfrey 1y ago

> without west being united If that is true, perhaps the US should stop destroying the western alliance.

maxdo 1y ago
perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. Europe is involved in a proxy war of China vs US. where EU associate member is fighting with china proxy, Russia. Other proxies are Iran with their satelites, without china neither Iran or Russia would not survive current wars they sponsor agaist west. as much as I hate current US admin, they push to increase NATO spending etc. how is that not "uniting" ?
- motorest 1y ago
  > perhaps lot of european people need to have a wake up call. You haven't been paying attention. Even to this thread. Let me be very clear: The US proved to be a very unreliable and outright hostile partner. At this point, it is not clear whether the US is more hostile to the collective west than the likes of China. Therefore, let the US keep their backyard TSMC. It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. That is the wake-up call.
  - rob_c 1y ago
    > It changes nothing. It helps nothing. It is not to be trusted. Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. Tariffs or no the US wants back in on the construction/manufacturing industry. This is something that should be seen as a good thing. I just wish the EU was so visionary but we're worried about recycling plastics (when we don't use the plastic) or curtailing bad think (rather than open dialogue)...
    - motorest 1y ago
      > Not when people are being absolutist rather than taking the situation for what it is and doing the best they can with it. The US is threatening NATO partners with invasion and annexation, not to mention the moronic tariff war, and you come here talk about "absolutist"? Pathetic.
      - rob_c 1y ago
        Basically NATO partners are only suffering from less sales info the US pocket. The US pocket is weakening to allow the US to begin manufacturing. The tarrif "war" for what it is will see an excess of products not sold to the US markets. The US will not invade. It's a pr move. Frankly if you're bothered with that let's talk about Hawaii and Alaska (or several international trade routes). There's plenty of opportunity that doesn't involve bowing to the petrol dollar and becoming subservient and maybe that can even be done without importing half of the developing world. Don't call people pathetic unless you're actually equipped to engage in conversation. It's demeaning to yourself and is no better than demanding things change for your feelings. Being absolutist is just giving up your ability to take action and control your own life. The biggest victim is yourself and it only hurts others. Take action. Do something and move on with life. Stop being paralyzed by the media left/right/alt/mainstream/pink-lizard-bunny. Go touch grass and be happy.
        rfrey 1y ago
        You keep isolating the discussion to tariffs, and ignoring the US hostility to former allies, including threatening to invade two NATO members, as well as US support for Russia against the west in active wars. Tariffs can be a reasonable policy (although not when implemented like this... rejuvenating manufacturing by imposing huge tariffs on raw materials? Really?) but when people talk about the US abandoning the western democracies they're not talking exclusively or even primarily about tariffs. Saying the equivalent of "Oh, that's just Trump talk" is nonsense. Everybody thought Trump's support for Russia was just talk. He's deployed active military on US soil. He's ignored the judiciary and is progressively neutering them. All that was "just Trump being Trump" before he did it. The man is a mad king and half of America is happy to follow him for the lolz.
- rfrey 1y ago
  Your country has threatened, out of nowhere, to annex my country - until now America's oldest and most steadfast ally - or failing that to destroy our economy until we capitulate. I do not feel united. And, echoing you, how is that not unreliable?

motorest 1y ago

> Right , just to remind that China is the country that supports Proxy wars with west (...) The current US administration directly and very overtly threatens two NATO members with invasion and annexation. I personally can't interpret Trump administration's insistence on supporting Russia on all fronts alongside its enthusiastic push to completely cut military support for Ukraine as anything other than something far more damaging to the collective west's protection than whatever support China or even North Korea is providing to Russia. There is no way to spin this: the US is the biggest threat to the collective west, not only by reneging on their obligations towards their allies in general and NATO in particular but also by it's clear and very overt threats.

rob_c 1y ago
Grow up. The US is posturing compared to China that puts boots on the ground and fires at ships belonging to "allies".
vimy 1y ago
China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. The Russians won't stop in Ukraine. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. > Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told the European Union’s top diplomat that Beijing can’t accept Russia losing its war against Ukraine as this could allow the United States to turn its full attention to China, an official briefed on the talks said, contradicting Beijing’s public position of neutrality in the conflict. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/04/europe/china-ukraine-eu-war-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/04/europe/china-ukraine-eu-w...
- motorest 1y ago
  > China is actively supporting the Russian army. They don't want Russia to lose. It can't be more clear than this which country is a greater danger to the West. The Trump administration is overtly cutting support from Ukraine while pressuring Ukraine to capitulate to Russia. At the same time it's also pushing for sanctions to be lifted and economic times with Russia to be normalized. Trump went to the extreme of pressuring the G7 to admit back Russia. What do you call that? China supporting glorified golf cars doesn't hold a candle to the damage that the US has done to peace in Europe and the collective west's interests in security.

selimthegrim 1y ago

>collective west Rossiya-1 viewer/bot sighted

Crestwave 1y ago

The US has committed more than its fair share of war crimes and notably even voted against the 2025 UN resolution condemning Russia for the Ukraine invasion, while China abstained from the vote. China may potentially be able to stop the war, but at what cost? They've been licking their wounds and rebuilding their nation at breakneck speed for the past century, and it's only recently that they've finally reached a critical stage with innovations on all fronts. Going against one of their two allies now would be pretty ill-advised. The US has also been very erratic, while China's current goals seem to be fairly consistent: reclaim everything they lost during the century of humiliation.