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I was tempted to use this but when I looked into the team behind it there seemed to be some issues as exposed by Louis Rossman here: https://youtu.be/Dl1x1Dy-ej

I was tempted to use this but when I looked into the team behind it there seemed to be some issues as exposed by Louis Rossman here: https://youtu.be/Dl1x1Dy-ej4 https://youtu.be/Dl1x1Dy-ej4. Instead, I installed CalyxOS and have been using it over a year now and I'm very happy with it. Check it out.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Scrubbed4426 1y ago
This a video where he openly bullies someone, live streams their private messages where they're getting upset with him bullying them and repeatedly, blatantly lies about them including falsely claiming they're insane, etc. Rossman lied about stopping using GrapheneOS and has continued using it after that point. The video was made to direct harassment towards the project and founder after the project refused to work with Rossman. He has done similar things to others, labeling them as insane and delusional.
- bernoufakis 1y ago
  > This a video where he openly bullies someone, live streams their private messages where they're getting upset with him bullying them and repeatedly, blatantly lies about them including falsely claiming they're insane, etc. That is the most disingeneous take on the video. The claim this kind of commenters that freely carry water for the toxic GOS (ex-?) lead developer is the exact reason why Rossmann made the video. The evidence is all there for the public to see. Daniel does not get to essentially harass people he disagrees with after they have been asked to not contact them, threaten them to "publicly expose them" and get away scott free. Being a genius at cyber security or autistic does not give one a free pass to treat other like garbage. > The video was made to direct harassment towards the project and founder after the project refused to work with Rossman. The video was made to expose the harassment of the project founder toward Rossmann, when the former contacted him out of the blue with frivolous accusations after they parted way a year earlier due to un-reconciliable disagreements. > He has done similar things to others, labeling them as insane and delusional. No evidence provided, as usual.
  - mbananasynergy 1y ago
    >No evidence provided, as usual. You should watch Rossmann's video on Linus - he has a habit of doing these hit pieces.
    - bernoufakis 1y ago
      Yes, I have watched them all. As I mentioned somewhere before I am a fan of both channels. He never called Linus "insane" or "delusional" as the parent post claims, hence the request for evidence. He (rightfully IMO) criticized some of his business practices (Honey, BilletLabs, "Trust me bro"), and quite a few more controversies which LTT was embroilled in. He criticized Linus' behavior and lack of accountability based on his personal interaction with him, as well as publicly available evidence. At worst, called him a narcissit. If anything, he is vindicated by all the LTT apologies videos (one of which Linus and other staff even make puns and sponsor placements ...) that follow up each controversies. Any more specific evidence you think show that "Rossmann has the habit of calling random people insane and delusional". I am willing to bet you have none.
mbananasynergy 1y ago
Hi there. GrapheneOS community manager here. It's a weird video to bring up without any context. Louis Rossmann made that video and leaked private conversations that were had fairly soon after the person in question was repeatedly swatted by someone who has a fan of the person Rossmann was voicing support for. Unfortunately, Rossmann turned out to be very dishonest, which in retrospect makes sense, seeing as he has no issues with using Kiwi Farms. He's verified account there is named "larossmann". I suggest you look into it. It's not just something he's done with GrapheneOS and the founder of the project. There are many videos, such as the one he did on Linus from Linus Tech Tips where he similarly misrepresented things and ascribed mental health labels on them. Regarding CalyxOS, I would recommend people check out https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm as a third-party comparison for various projects, including GrapheneOS and CalyxOS. They're not similar projects.
- nicman23 1y ago
  that comparison you are pasting in multiple replies has lineageos without micro-g.
  - icar 1y ago
    MicroG is extremely insecure. Does nobody remember that they used to print your Google password in plain text in the logs?
    - nicman23 1y ago
      k but i do not care about an account that i do not have. i only use it for the gms or whatever is called now
- onli 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bernoufakis 1y ago
    Unfortunately I don't think they do. Disclaimer, I am a GrapheneOS user. I was introduced to GOS by Louis Rossmann initial 2 or 3 videos talking about giving them a FUTO grant, as well as praising GOS and showing how it easy it was to install, and how it gave back control to the user, and all the good things that GOS genuinely provides. I have (unfortunately) followed this saga and went down the rabbit hole since the very beginning. To my understanding based on publicly available data, the key "evidence" put forward by GOS developer(s) / community manager would be: 1. Louis Rossmann leaving the now pinned comment "Informative but unfortunate" on TechLore's video on the leadership of GOS. They claim this is Rossmann showing support for Techlore and his community to (allegedly) harassed the (at the time) lead developer of GOS. 2. Louis Rossmann having KiwiFarm account. Yes, KW is a cesspit. However, all of Rossmann's message on the board mostly focus on either addressing misconceptions about himself, or promoting right to repair and similar topic. This can be easily checked, and at no point there is any public evidence of him supporting harassment toward the GOS developers. 3. Louis Rossmann being acquainted with leadership of other de-googling Android OSes (CalyxOS mainly I think) and also giving them a FUTO grant. Essentially, "guilt by association". I know this because I have asked the community manager (goes by mbananasynergy on HN, and similar aliases on other platforms), and that is what they provided as "evidence" for Rossmann being guilty of harassing or promoting harassment against them (along with mentions of having 2 millions of USD worth of backing and ready to sue Rossmann, which has not materialized as far as know since ~1.5 years ago). I want to preface by saying that GOS is really a good software, I have been using it for 2 or 3 years since then, and no complaints on that side. My biggest gripe however, is indeed with the leadership and management of the community. I created a new account instead of posting this with my main because the leadership is in my experience very abrasive, to say the least. I have been banned without appeal from their Mastodon for leaving "thumbs up" smiley on : 1) messages suggesting the GOS devs to do an interview with Rossmann (as he did with other projects that received a FUTO grant) to further spread the word, or 2) messages suggesting to clear up the misunderstanding between the devs and Rossmann. Any disagreement on their official narrative, or contrary opinion (even in good faith) leads to bans if they are in control of the platform, and accusations of collaborating with groups that harass the developers. Even here, anything contrary to that narrative will receive the usual wall of text describing the poster as sockpuppets, harassers directed by Rossmann, Techlore, CalyxOS, or any other projects GOS developers are beefing with. I am disappointed by the situation, because I think GOS could have a larger presence and contribute to raising awareness about the importance of data security, but their leadership seems to be a considerable roadblock on that direction.
BLKNSLVR 1y ago
"Never meet your heroes". Also, the opening monologue to Tool's Third Eye[0]. The older I get the more examples I've come across of a person destroying their reputation by either self-over-exposure (social media) or just basic exposure via news of some outrageous or illegal behavior. I don't have a problem with whatever line you choose to not cross, and I was once much more self-righteous, but I've more recently pretty much made the conscious decision to separate product from producer, art from artist, etc. Theo Lengyel was recently arrested for murdering his girlfriend, and yet I will still listen to and enjoy Mr. Bungle's music. Gary Glitter... I still like the song Rock n Roll Part Two. J.K. Rowling has some controversial views on transsexual women, but that doesn't mean that the Harry Potter series is any less worthwhile reading than it was before. ReiserFS I still buy Nestle Quik occasionally Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, name almost any tech bro... (but not Steve Wozniak, he's a treasure) Sports stars. Musicians. I wonder how many other things are worthy of protest if we knew all the facts about all the people who were involved in it's creation. (I'm attempting to respond to the general concept of "he/she/they bad = it bad", not commenting on GrapheneOS vs CalyxOS or anyone's personal choice over where / what they choose to apply "he/she/they bad = it bad" to, other than saying that it should be a conscious decision not a reflexive reaction) [0]: https://genius.com/Tool-third-eye-lyrics https://genius.com/Tool-third-eye-lyrics
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
onli 1y ago
You are exactly right. To summarise for those who do not want to watch a video, the video shows communications with Graphenes lead developer in which he was extremely hostile and threatened Rossman. It also goes into how said developers hallucinates being attacked by specific other sites, like a Linux YouTube channel that obviously did nothing to him. His goons then attack those projects. You have to be aware that you give that person root when you use Graphene. All possible technical improvements aside this is a very big risk. He claimed he would step back after the video released, then called that a lie and continued with everything. Calyx seems to be the best alternative right now without such a risk factor.
- gtsop 1y ago
  Can you elaborate on why this is a risk factor? What do you mean by saying we're giving him root? If a person is paranoid of being chased i would expect them to put even more effort into the security of the OS he develops, not to add backdoors. But please expand your own reasoning.
  - onli 1y ago
    Well, he can do everything to your phone, software and data by pushing software updates. When there was a dispute in the former project copperhead he deleted the cryptographic keys, blocking software updates. Paranoia could result in just making the system more secure, but why not add a backdoor to find the spies in your userbases that communicate with the black suited men that secretly run our government? After all it is easy, they all play a specific game where they communicate via secret messages in chat. You just don't know what will happen is what I'm saying. The "he has root" is also a reference to ubuntus shuttleworth.
    - gf000 1y ago
      > when there was a dispute in the former project copperhead You mean who tried to hijack the project in a very questionable direction, harming their users, he rather lighted the project on fire then let the users' security be compromised? If anything, that is the greatest compliment you could give him. Also, this is fud that he can push any kind of code, like you can easily check any part of the pipeline.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Scrubbed4426 1y ago

This a video where he openly bullies someone, live streams their private messages where they're getting upset with him bullying them and repeatedly, blatantly lies about them including falsely claiming they're insane, etc. Rossman lied about stopping using GrapheneOS and has continued using it after that point. The video was made to direct harassment towards the project and founder after the project refused to work with Rossman. He has done similar things to others, labeling them as insane and delusional.

bernoufakis 1y ago
> This a video where he openly bullies someone, live streams their private messages where they're getting upset with him bullying them and repeatedly, blatantly lies about them including falsely claiming they're insane, etc. That is the most disingeneous take on the video. The claim this kind of commenters that freely carry water for the toxic GOS (ex-?) lead developer is the exact reason why Rossmann made the video. The evidence is all there for the public to see. Daniel does not get to essentially harass people he disagrees with after they have been asked to not contact them, threaten them to "publicly expose them" and get away scott free. Being a genius at cyber security or autistic does not give one a free pass to treat other like garbage. > The video was made to direct harassment towards the project and founder after the project refused to work with Rossman. The video was made to expose the harassment of the project founder toward Rossmann, when the former contacted him out of the blue with frivolous accusations after they parted way a year earlier due to un-reconciliable disagreements. > He has done similar things to others, labeling them as insane and delusional. No evidence provided, as usual.
- mbananasynergy 1y ago
  >No evidence provided, as usual. You should watch Rossmann's video on Linus - he has a habit of doing these hit pieces.
  - bernoufakis 1y ago
    Yes, I have watched them all. As I mentioned somewhere before I am a fan of both channels. He never called Linus "insane" or "delusional" as the parent post claims, hence the request for evidence. He (rightfully IMO) criticized some of his business practices (Honey, BilletLabs, "Trust me bro"), and quite a few more controversies which LTT was embroilled in. He criticized Linus' behavior and lack of accountability based on his personal interaction with him, as well as publicly available evidence. At worst, called him a narcissit. If anything, he is vindicated by all the LTT apologies videos (one of which Linus and other staff even make puns and sponsor placements ...) that follow up each controversies. Any more specific evidence you think show that "Rossmann has the habit of calling random people insane and delusional". I am willing to bet you have none.

mbananasynergy 1y ago

Hi there. GrapheneOS community manager here. It's a weird video to bring up without any context. Louis Rossmann made that video and leaked private conversations that were had fairly soon after the person in question was repeatedly swatted by someone who has a fan of the person Rossmann was voicing support for. Unfortunately, Rossmann turned out to be very dishonest, which in retrospect makes sense, seeing as he has no issues with using Kiwi Farms. He's verified account there is named "larossmann". I suggest you look into it. It's not just something he's done with GrapheneOS and the founder of the project. There are many videos, such as the one he did on Linus from Linus Tech Tips where he similarly misrepresented things and ascribed mental health labels on them. Regarding CalyxOS, I would recommend people check out https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm as a third-party comparison for various projects, including GrapheneOS and CalyxOS. They're not similar projects.

nicman23 1y ago
that comparison you are pasting in multiple replies has lineageos without micro-g.
- icar 1y ago
  MicroG is extremely insecure. Does nobody remember that they used to print your Google password in plain text in the logs?
  - nicman23 1y ago
    k but i do not care about an account that i do not have. i only use it for the gms or whatever is called now
onli 1y ago
[flagged]
- bernoufakis 1y ago
  Unfortunately I don't think they do. Disclaimer, I am a GrapheneOS user. I was introduced to GOS by Louis Rossmann initial 2 or 3 videos talking about giving them a FUTO grant, as well as praising GOS and showing how it easy it was to install, and how it gave back control to the user, and all the good things that GOS genuinely provides. I have (unfortunately) followed this saga and went down the rabbit hole since the very beginning. To my understanding based on publicly available data, the key "evidence" put forward by GOS developer(s) / community manager would be: 1. Louis Rossmann leaving the now pinned comment "Informative but unfortunate" on TechLore's video on the leadership of GOS. They claim this is Rossmann showing support for Techlore and his community to (allegedly) harassed the (at the time) lead developer of GOS. 2. Louis Rossmann having KiwiFarm account. Yes, KW is a cesspit. However, all of Rossmann's message on the board mostly focus on either addressing misconceptions about himself, or promoting right to repair and similar topic. This can be easily checked, and at no point there is any public evidence of him supporting harassment toward the GOS developers. 3. Louis Rossmann being acquainted with leadership of other de-googling Android OSes (CalyxOS mainly I think) and also giving them a FUTO grant. Essentially, "guilt by association". I know this because I have asked the community manager (goes by mbananasynergy on HN, and similar aliases on other platforms), and that is what they provided as "evidence" for Rossmann being guilty of harassing or promoting harassment against them (along with mentions of having 2 millions of USD worth of backing and ready to sue Rossmann, which has not materialized as far as know since ~1.5 years ago). I want to preface by saying that GOS is really a good software, I have been using it for 2 or 3 years since then, and no complaints on that side. My biggest gripe however, is indeed with the leadership and management of the community. I created a new account instead of posting this with my main because the leadership is in my experience very abrasive, to say the least. I have been banned without appeal from their Mastodon for leaving "thumbs up" smiley on : 1) messages suggesting the GOS devs to do an interview with Rossmann (as he did with other projects that received a FUTO grant) to further spread the word, or 2) messages suggesting to clear up the misunderstanding between the devs and Rossmann. Any disagreement on their official narrative, or contrary opinion (even in good faith) leads to bans if they are in control of the platform, and accusations of collaborating with groups that harass the developers. Even here, anything contrary to that narrative will receive the usual wall of text describing the poster as sockpuppets, harassers directed by Rossmann, Techlore, CalyxOS, or any other projects GOS developers are beefing with. I am disappointed by the situation, because I think GOS could have a larger presence and contribute to raising awareness about the importance of data security, but their leadership seems to be a considerable roadblock on that direction.

BLKNSLVR 1y ago

"Never meet your heroes". Also, the opening monologue to Tool's Third Eye[0]. The older I get the more examples I've come across of a person destroying their reputation by either self-over-exposure (social media) or just basic exposure via news of some outrageous or illegal behavior. I don't have a problem with whatever line you choose to not cross, and I was once much more self-righteous, but I've more recently pretty much made the conscious decision to separate product from producer, art from artist, etc. Theo Lengyel was recently arrested for murdering his girlfriend, and yet I will still listen to and enjoy Mr. Bungle's music. Gary Glitter... I still like the song Rock n Roll Part Two. J.K. Rowling has some controversial views on transsexual women, but that doesn't mean that the Harry Potter series is any less worthwhile reading than it was before. ReiserFS I still buy Nestle Quik occasionally Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, name almost any tech bro... (but not Steve Wozniak, he's a treasure) Sports stars. Musicians. I wonder how many other things are worthy of protest if we knew all the facts about all the people who were involved in it's creation. (I'm attempting to respond to the general concept of "he/she/they bad = it bad", not commenting on GrapheneOS vs CalyxOS or anyone's personal choice over where / what they choose to apply "he/she/they bad = it bad" to, other than saying that it should be a conscious decision not a reflexive reaction) [0]: https://genius.com/Tool-third-eye-lyrics https://genius.com/Tool-third-eye-lyrics

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

onli 1y ago

You are exactly right. To summarise for those who do not want to watch a video, the video shows communications with Graphenes lead developer in which he was extremely hostile and threatened Rossman. It also goes into how said developers hallucinates being attacked by specific other sites, like a Linux YouTube channel that obviously did nothing to him. His goons then attack those projects. You have to be aware that you give that person root when you use Graphene. All possible technical improvements aside this is a very big risk. He claimed he would step back after the video released, then called that a lie and continued with everything. Calyx seems to be the best alternative right now without such a risk factor.

gtsop 1y ago
Can you elaborate on why this is a risk factor? What do you mean by saying we're giving him root? If a person is paranoid of being chased i would expect them to put even more effort into the security of the OS he develops, not to add backdoors. But please expand your own reasoning.
- onli 1y ago
  Well, he can do everything to your phone, software and data by pushing software updates. When there was a dispute in the former project copperhead he deleted the cryptographic keys, blocking software updates. Paranoia could result in just making the system more secure, but why not add a backdoor to find the spies in your userbases that communicate with the black suited men that secretly run our government? After all it is easy, they all play a specific game where they communicate via secret messages in chat. You just don't know what will happen is what I'm saying. The "he has root" is also a reference to ubuntus shuttleworth.
  - gf000 1y ago
    > when there was a dispute in the former project copperhead You mean who tried to hijack the project in a very questionable direction, harming their users, he rather lighted the project on fire then let the users' security be compromised? If anything, that is the greatest compliment you could give him. Also, this is fud that he can push any kind of code, like you can easily check any part of the pipeline.