3 ms·

I don't want to dunk too hard on this as it seems to be reasonably well made, but how are we making a data science IDE without a good SQL client? I might be bia

by qsort 1y ago

I don't want to dunk too hard on this as it seems to be reasonably well made, but how are we making a data science IDE without a good SQL client? I might be biased but that's a major part of the workflow. You're already losing against PyCharm or Visual Studio (not code, the real one) simply because of that. I appreciate that full IDEs are heavy tools, but when I just need an editor I go with vim, if I have to do real work why not take out the power tools?

notnmeyer 1y ago
it looks like it is based on vsc. there’s got to be a decent sql client extension, right?
- NeutralForest 1y ago
  Then why use this instead of VSCode with a couple extensions?
  - jmcphers 1y ago
    You can in fact get something "pretty close" to Positron by adding and configuring a whole bunch of VS Code extensions, adjusting the layout, etc. However it's fiddly and time-consuming work (and quite challenging for novice users); the resulting UX can be pretty disjointed, too. Positron provides a batteries-included experience that lets you work with Python and R out of the box; it's easier to get started, everything's already set up for data work, and the tools all work together smoothly. At least, that's the goal. :-) (disclaimer - I work on Positron)
    - NeutralForest 1y ago
      I honestly don't think it's enough of a value proposition but I wish you the best, more competition is good!
      - samuell 1y ago
        I'd go out on a limb and say the rock-solid out-of-the box experience is what is keeping many people using R-studio (and even R itself), rather than the messy ecosystem of Python. I'm seeing this tendency in myself for some tasks. Also, my impression is that that is also a big part of why MATLAB still exists, despite outraging prices. I think the common theme among these tools' main user groups is that they are not developers. They are not comfortable fiddling a lot with a dev environment, but can be productive in an environment where everything just works. Thus, if Positron can get the same smooth and rock-solid out-of-the box experience, it will be able to reach a lot of these non-developer user groups. At least that's my 5c.
        RamblingCTO 1y ago
        Jup, that's 100% it. Even tho I build productive systems in anything but R, whipping up Rstudio and having it all included or easily installable without any package manager fuckery or anything makes it a non brainer.
- qsort 1y ago
  You're welcome to suggest one that has 10% of the functionality that with PyCharm you take for granted. Graphical table creator? View and export ER schemas? SQL Syntax and autocomplete in .sql files AND within literal strings in your code? Query explainer? Yeah, I don't think so.
juliasilge 1y ago
I work on Positron, and I do not entirely disagree with you! We do have support for managing connections from Python and R: https://positron.posit.co/connections-pane.html https://positron.posit.co/connections-pane.html But we have some pretty big aspirations around expanding our SQL support, based on the features we have already built like that Connections pane, our Data Explorer, our Observable support via Quarto, etc. We plan to invest in this area over the coming months, starting in Q4 this year.
- qsort 1y ago
  Appreciate the response, sorry if I'm being a bit direct but as you probably know that's the style that works the best on a forum like this one. I'll keep tabs on you guys, my DS colleagues might be interested in the project.

by qsort 1y ago

notnmeyer 1y ago

it looks like it is based on vsc. there’s got to be a decent sql client extension, right?

NeutralForest 1y ago
Then why use this instead of VSCode with a couple extensions?
- jmcphers 1y ago
  You can in fact get something "pretty close" to Positron by adding and configuring a whole bunch of VS Code extensions, adjusting the layout, etc. However it's fiddly and time-consuming work (and quite challenging for novice users); the resulting UX can be pretty disjointed, too. Positron provides a batteries-included experience that lets you work with Python and R out of the box; it's easier to get started, everything's already set up for data work, and the tools all work together smoothly. At least, that's the goal. :-) (disclaimer - I work on Positron)
  - NeutralForest 1y ago
    I honestly don't think it's enough of a value proposition but I wish you the best, more competition is good!
    - samuell 1y ago
      I'd go out on a limb and say the rock-solid out-of-the box experience is what is keeping many people using R-studio (and even R itself), rather than the messy ecosystem of Python. I'm seeing this tendency in myself for some tasks. Also, my impression is that that is also a big part of why MATLAB still exists, despite outraging prices. I think the common theme among these tools' main user groups is that they are not developers. They are not comfortable fiddling a lot with a dev environment, but can be productive in an environment where everything just works. Thus, if Positron can get the same smooth and rock-solid out-of-the box experience, it will be able to reach a lot of these non-developer user groups. At least that's my 5c.
      - RamblingCTO 1y ago
        Jup, that's 100% it. Even tho I build productive systems in anything but R, whipping up Rstudio and having it all included or easily installable without any package manager fuckery or anything makes it a non brainer.
qsort 1y ago
You're welcome to suggest one that has 10% of the functionality that with PyCharm you take for granted. Graphical table creator? View and export ER schemas? SQL Syntax and autocomplete in .sql files AND within literal strings in your code? Query explainer? Yeah, I don't think so.

juliasilge 1y ago

I work on Positron, and I do not entirely disagree with you! We do have support for managing connections from Python and R: https://positron.posit.co/connections-pane.html https://positron.posit.co/connections-pane.html But we have some pretty big aspirations around expanding our SQL support, based on the features we have already built like that Connections pane, our Data Explorer, our Observable support via Quarto, etc. We plan to invest in this area over the coming months, starting in Q4 this year.

qsort 1y ago
Appreciate the response, sorry if I'm being a bit direct but as you probably know that's the style that works the best on a forum like this one. I'll keep tabs on you guys, my DS colleagues might be interested in the project.