3 ms·

The fucked up thing is how they are enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world. Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games

The fucked up thing is how they are enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world. Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games on Steam or Itch.io) The most confusing thing for me is why. I have read a few theories, but nothing convincing. What could be a strong enough motivator to do such a bizarre thing? Also we need governments to keep them in line. We cant have private corps acting as de facto censors like that. Its completely undemocratic and unethical.

shortrounddev2 1y ago
I've heard that Mastercard is running by evangelists
greenavocado 1y ago
This is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is what is preventing other payment processors from seamlessly getting in front of the customer, at every retail location, and online? If other payment processors existed and were allowed to flourish, we would not give a damn if these two blocked 90% of transaction types. Instead, something is suffocating innovation and personal freedom.
- LaGrange 1y ago
  It's the very same payment processors stifling that "innovation," though. You can't invisible hand yourself out of this one.
- skissane 1y ago
  > This is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is what is preventing other payment processors from seamlessly getting in front of the customer, at every retail location, and online? Here in Australia, most places accept UnionPay as well as Visa/Mastercard - but I don’t know if any local banks offer UnionPay cards, [0] I think this facility is really targeted at visitors from mainland China. And if a cafe takes UnionPay, that’s just because the cafe’s bank accepts it, and why would the cafe refuse if the bank allows it? A lot of places refuse to take Amex even though their bank does due to its high fees, but I don’t believe UnionPay has that issue. A lot of places take JCB, although that’s not as widely accepted as UnionPay is-in Australia, JCB is handled by Amex, so a lot of merchants will refuse JCB (even if their bank accepts it) due to the same concern about fees. Diners Club used to be accepted in Australia too, until they pulled out of the Australian market last year (I think overseas Diners Club cards are still accepted by some places as Discover, but few in Australia have ever heard of Discover) I used to have an Amex credit card issued by my bank, and I used to use it all the time-they’d kick back some of the extra merchant fee they got as extra frequent flyer points/miles - but Australian banks stopped issuing Amex when a regulatory change in 2017 significantly reduced how much money the issuing bank could make from them I don’t believe the situation for online retailers is hugely different-if your bank supports UnionPay/Amex/JCB for in-person transactions, they likely do for online transactions too [0] Bank of China’s Australian subsidiary apparently does issue UnionPay cards to Australian residents, but I doubt they’d get many customers except for immigrants from China-most Australians would never even consider applying, and they’ve made no attempt to market it to the average person
- jdashg 1y ago
  Network effects and moats, sadly.
skissane 1y ago
> Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games on Steam or Itch.io) It seems extra illogical when you think of how much money they make from subscription adult websites, even brothels-in countries that have legal brothels, I think you’ll find many of them accept credit cards, and Visa and Mastercard don’t appear to have a problem with that
- habinero 1y ago
  Yeah, it's almost like porn isn't the problem, it's crime and chargebacks. All of those sites use high risk payment processors if they go through the major card networks.
  - mitthrowaway2 1y ago
    I sincerely doubt that people are issuing chargebacks for Steam store purchases.
    - skissane 1y ago
      Our son kept on buying games using Steam and then getting refunds for them in order to buy another one instead I told him to stop, because I was worried that too many refunds might result in Valve taking action against the account Still, why bother with a chargeback when the vendor has a generous refund policy?
    - habinero 1y ago
      I think you misread my comment. I wasn't saying they did.
krapp 1y ago
>What could be a strong enough motivator to do such a bizarre thing? Money. The only two motivators for a capitalist entity are making money and avoiding any government interference with making more money. They certainly aren't doing it out of Christian principles.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  > They certainly aren't doing it out of Christian principles. Said Evangelicals unfortunately know how to raise a stink, and with stinks comes bad press or, even worse, haphazard attempts to regulate stuff. Or, under Trump, it might draw the ire of the Dear Leader himself and suddenly even a company like MC/Visa finds itself in hot water. Either of these results is expensive, much more a cost risk than the profit of something like Itch is worth.
netsharc 1y ago
Something to do with https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/prosecuting-corporations-that-benefit-financially-from-human-trafficking.html https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/prosecutin... ? > In particular, the TVPA imposes criminal liability upon corporations that benefit financially from human trafficking in “reckless disregard” that their business ventures engaged in such exploitation. Not that digitally generated tits and asses have anything to do with human trafficking. But for a payment provider, porn sites are risky because their upload filters can miss content that violates these laws.. Russia's exclusion from Visa/Mastercard means cards there are on the Chinese networks and Russia's internal one.. it'd be interesting if adult content providers adopt these, bur I guess that means working with a Russian financial institute, which risks embargo from the US. Imagine that, your porn stars ending up on the US embargo list... Meanwhile, on the topic of human trafficking, Trump is panicking about being in Epstein's files...
man4 1y ago
[dead]
habinero 1y ago
Really? It's not difficult. Visa doesn't give a single shit about porn, porn generates a lot of fraud and chargebacks that cost them money. Most people I see complaining about how "unethical" it is are the ones who got kicked off the card networks for very good reasons like fraud or money laundering, or they got themselves on the MATCH list.
AdieuToLogic 1y ago
> The fucked up thing is how they are enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world. Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games on Steam or Itch.io) Banks, which constitute the majority of both payment networks, are not "enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world" nor acting as "censors." > The most confusing thing for me is why. I have read a few theories, but nothing convincing. What could be a strong enough motivator to do such a bizarre thing? There is no need for theories regarding the inability to sell "adult games on Steam or Itch.io" as the answer is simple. Banks have identified this particular line of business to exceed their risk tolerance for any combination of: Chargebacks Fraud Money Laundering They have lost too much money in this particular domain. That's it.

shortrounddev2 1y ago

I've heard that Mastercard is running by evangelists

greenavocado 1y ago

This is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is what is preventing other payment processors from seamlessly getting in front of the customer, at every retail location, and online? If other payment processors existed and were allowed to flourish, we would not give a damn if these two blocked 90% of transaction types. Instead, something is suffocating innovation and personal freedom.

LaGrange 1y ago
It's the very same payment processors stifling that "innovation," though. You can't invisible hand yourself out of this one.
skissane 1y ago
> This is the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is what is preventing other payment processors from seamlessly getting in front of the customer, at every retail location, and online? Here in Australia, most places accept UnionPay as well as Visa/Mastercard - but I don’t know if any local banks offer UnionPay cards, [0] I think this facility is really targeted at visitors from mainland China. And if a cafe takes UnionPay, that’s just because the cafe’s bank accepts it, and why would the cafe refuse if the bank allows it? A lot of places refuse to take Amex even though their bank does due to its high fees, but I don’t believe UnionPay has that issue. A lot of places take JCB, although that’s not as widely accepted as UnionPay is-in Australia, JCB is handled by Amex, so a lot of merchants will refuse JCB (even if their bank accepts it) due to the same concern about fees. Diners Club used to be accepted in Australia too, until they pulled out of the Australian market last year (I think overseas Diners Club cards are still accepted by some places as Discover, but few in Australia have ever heard of Discover) I used to have an Amex credit card issued by my bank, and I used to use it all the time-they’d kick back some of the extra merchant fee they got as extra frequent flyer points/miles - but Australian banks stopped issuing Amex when a regulatory change in 2017 significantly reduced how much money the issuing bank could make from them I don’t believe the situation for online retailers is hugely different-if your bank supports UnionPay/Amex/JCB for in-person transactions, they likely do for online transactions too [0] Bank of China’s Australian subsidiary apparently does issue UnionPay cards to Australian residents, but I doubt they’d get many customers except for immigrants from China-most Australians would never even consider applying, and they’ve made no attempt to market it to the average person
jdashg 1y ago
Network effects and moats, sadly.

skissane 1y ago

> Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games on Steam or Itch.io) It seems extra illogical when you think of how much money they make from subscription adult websites, even brothels-in countries that have legal brothels, I think you’ll find many of them accept credit cards, and Visa and Mastercard don’t appear to have a problem with that

habinero 1y ago
Yeah, it's almost like porn isn't the problem, it's crime and chargebacks. All of those sites use high risk payment processors if they go through the major card networks.
- mitthrowaway2 1y ago
  I sincerely doubt that people are issuing chargebacks for Steam store purchases.
  - skissane 1y ago
    Our son kept on buying games using Steam and then getting refunds for them in order to buy another one instead I told him to stop, because I was worried that too many refunds might result in Valve taking action against the account Still, why bother with a chargeback when the vendor has a generous refund policy?
  - habinero 1y ago
    I think you misread my comment. I wasn't saying they did.

krapp 1y ago

>What could be a strong enough motivator to do such a bizarre thing? Money. The only two motivators for a capitalist entity are making money and avoiding any government interference with making more money. They certainly aren't doing it out of Christian principles.

mschuster91 1y ago
> They certainly aren't doing it out of Christian principles. Said Evangelicals unfortunately know how to raise a stink, and with stinks comes bad press or, even worse, haphazard attempts to regulate stuff. Or, under Trump, it might draw the ire of the Dear Leader himself and suddenly even a company like MC/Visa finds itself in hot water. Either of these results is expensive, much more a cost risk than the profit of something like Itch is worth.

netsharc 1y ago

Something to do with https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/prosecuting-corporations-that-benefit-financially-from-human-trafficking.html https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/prosecutin... ? > In particular, the TVPA imposes criminal liability upon corporations that benefit financially from human trafficking in “reckless disregard” that their business ventures engaged in such exploitation. Not that digitally generated tits and asses have anything to do with human trafficking. But for a payment provider, porn sites are risky because their upload filters can miss content that violates these laws.. Russia's exclusion from Visa/Mastercard means cards there are on the Chinese networks and Russia's internal one.. it'd be interesting if adult content providers adopt these, bur I guess that means working with a Russian financial institute, which risks embargo from the US. Imagine that, your porn stars ending up on the US embargo list... Meanwhile, on the topic of human trafficking, Trump is panicking about being in Epstein's files...

man4 1y ago

[dead]

habinero 1y ago

Really? It's not difficult. Visa doesn't give a single shit about porn, porn generates a lot of fraud and chargebacks that cost them money. Most people I see complaining about how "unethical" it is are the ones who got kicked off the card networks for very good reasons like fraud or money laundering, or they got themselves on the MATCH list.

AdieuToLogic 1y ago

> The fucked up thing is how they are enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world. Acting as self appointed global censors. (Eg. not allowing adult games on Steam or Itch.io) Banks, which constitute the majority of both payment networks, are not "enforcing archaic puritan ideals on the whole world" nor acting as "censors." > The most confusing thing for me is why. I have read a few theories, but nothing convincing. What could be a strong enough motivator to do such a bizarre thing? There is no need for theories regarding the inability to sell "adult games on Steam or Itch.io" as the answer is simple. Banks have identified this particular line of business to exceed their risk tolerance for any combination of: Chargebacks Fraud Money Laundering They have lost too much money in this particular domain. That's it.