4 ms·

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

by OJFord 1y ago

hollywood_court 1y ago
I should have been more clear: if you're going to carry a firearm on your person, regardless of concealed or open, it should always have a round in the chamber.
- OJFord 1y ago
  That may be your rule, for all I know it's the USAF's rule, but it's not the British Army's, and it doesn't seem logical to me in a military context. (I probably agree with you in the context of 'out in public and have decided you need a firearm', just not 'on a friendly military base and carrying a firearm as a matter of course rather than any acute reason'.)
  - aerostable_slug 1y ago
    The Royal Marines of 43 Commando guarding the nukes at Faslane have loaded weapons. The Security Forces at the base in question guard strategic nuclear weapons. The other USAF command most concerned is USAFE, where the threat of terrorism against a USAF facility is greater than in the mainland US.
    - OJFord 1y ago
      Sure, there are scenarios. Article describes a classroom or briefing type situation though, it's holstered but on the desk. This is not someone on duty guarding anything.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- curt15 1y ago
  The Israelis famously don't do this except for some special forces. Various videos put out by the IDF demonstrate racking the slide as they draw their weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swveA-_1dus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swveA-_1dus
aerostable_slug 1y ago
They weren't concealed carrying. These are Security Forces personnel guarding strategic nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. To illustrate the priority of their mission, Global Strike Command ordered that the troops normally carrying pistols be issued assault rifles in their stead.
- OJFord 1y ago
  Sure. Please understand my comment in context replying to that above it - that 'of course there was a round in the chamber because that's how you do concealed carry'.
Filmatic 1y ago
Military personnel generally can’t carry at all on post/base without a specific need. Nor keep private firearms at home, if on base/post housing. This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely.
- int_19h 1y ago
  That mostly tells you about the cost/benefit at a military base. Which is a place where you have to go through a checkpoint with armed people to even get in there in the first place.
- giantg2 1y ago
  "This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.
  - gmueckl 1y ago
    There are tons of incidents with intruders on military bases where I am from. They are atrractive targets for criminals like thieves, too. Guards aren't a very effective deterrent. Also, everyone I talked to who found suspicious activity while on guard duty confessed to me that they were terrified in the moment even though they were trying to project authority on the outside.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      Depends on the base. Most bases have controlled entrances and patrolled perimeters. I do know of some that are more or less open or only require a photo ID for entry, but those don't seem as common. Or maybe times are changing.
    - 0xffff2 1y ago
ImJamal 1y ago
Military police need them to prevent people from entering the base.
- OJFord 1y ago
  Ok, but not relevant.
  - ImJamal 1y ago
    Many police carry a secondary handgun in case they lose their primary or whatever.
  - Animats 1y ago
    If a vehicle fails to stop at a base entrance, the gate guard hits the button that raises a barrier some distance past the entrance. Then they go for a weapon, if necessary. Post 9/11, that will be something with more power than a pistol.[1] The barrier solves an old problem - what action to take when a vehicle fails to stop at a checkpoint. Most of the time, it's drunks or minor crazies. Lethal force is excessive and car chases on base are dangerous. Barriers became standard for DoD installations around 2005. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW79PLFuUGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW79PLFuUGw

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

by OJFord 1y ago

And what's the reason for USAF personnel to conceal carry on a USAF base? Article doesn't even suggest it was.

I should have been more clear: if you're going to carry a firearm on your person, regardless of concealed or open, it should always have a round in the chamber.

OJFord 1y ago
That may be your rule, for all I know it's the USAF's rule, but it's not the British Army's, and it doesn't seem logical to me in a military context. (I probably agree with you in the context of 'out in public and have decided you need a firearm', just not 'on a friendly military base and carrying a firearm as a matter of course rather than any acute reason'.)
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  The Royal Marines of 43 Commando guarding the nukes at Faslane have loaded weapons. The Security Forces at the base in question guard strategic nuclear weapons. The other USAF command most concerned is USAFE, where the threat of terrorism against a USAF facility is greater than in the mainland US.
  - OJFord 1y ago
    Sure, there are scenarios. Article describes a classroom or briefing type situation though, it's holstered but on the desk. This is not someone on duty guarding anything.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
curt15 1y ago
The Israelis famously don't do this except for some special forces. Various videos put out by the IDF demonstrate racking the slide as they draw their weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swveA-_1dus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swveA-_1dus

aerostable_slug 1y ago

They weren't concealed carrying. These are Security Forces personnel guarding strategic nuclear weapons and their delivery systems. To illustrate the priority of their mission, Global Strike Command ordered that the troops normally carrying pistols be issued assault rifles in their stead.

OJFord 1y ago
Sure. Please understand my comment in context replying to that above it - that 'of course there was a round in the chamber because that's how you do concealed carry'.

Filmatic 1y ago

Military personnel generally can’t carry at all on post/base without a specific need. Nor keep private firearms at home, if on base/post housing. This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely.

int_19h 1y ago
That mostly tells you about the cost/benefit at a military base. Which is a place where you have to go through a checkpoint with armed people to even get in there in the first place.
giantg2 1y ago
"This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.
- gmueckl 1y ago
  There are tons of incidents with intruders on military bases where I am from. They are atrractive targets for criminals like thieves, too. Guards aren't a very effective deterrent. Also, everyone I talked to who found suspicious activity while on guard duty confessed to me that they were terrified in the moment even though they were trying to project authority on the outside.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    Depends on the base. Most bases have controlled entrances and patrolled perimeters. I do know of some that are more or less open or only require a photo ID for entry, but those don't seem as common. Or maybe times are changing.
  - 0xffff2 1y ago

ImJamal 1y ago

Military police need them to prevent people from entering the base.

OJFord 1y ago
Ok, but not relevant.
- ImJamal 1y ago
  Many police carry a secondary handgun in case they lose their primary or whatever.
- Animats 1y ago
  If a vehicle fails to stop at a base entrance, the gate guard hits the button that raises a barrier some distance past the entrance. Then they go for a weapon, if necessary. Post 9/11, that will be something with more power than a pistol.[1] The barrier solves an old problem - what action to take when a vehicle fails to stop at a checkpoint. Most of the time, it's drunks or minor crazies. Lethal force is excessive and car chases on base are dangerous. Barriers became standard for DoD installations around 2005. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW79PLFuUGw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW79PLFuUGw