4 ms·

Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.

anonymars 1y ago
"Have patience and try to understand people you disagree with, and they might be open to changing their mind" isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a fundamental building block of effective human communication. Ask any good salesperson
- JustExAWS 1y ago
  There is a huge difference between “I don’t agree with your stance on supply side economics or universal healthcare” and “I would just as well see you hanging from a tree as sitting here next to me” or “because you decide to love someone of the same sex, you are going to bring an end to this great nation and I will do everything I can to make your life miserable”, I am not trying to “understand” anyone who thinks someone doesn’t deserve to exist.
  - anonymars 1y ago
    So don't. But why insist to everyone else that engaging with prejudice and changing people's minds is impossible?
    - scarface_74 1y ago
      Yet I bet you’re not going to try to do outreach to people you know want to see you or your family harmed just because of the color of your skin…
      - anonymars 1y ago
        Why do you assume that, and what is it you would like to achieve by saying so? Do you think I champion this because I've never helped someone become less prejudiced? I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. But do you think the world will just change for the better of its own accord (or that it will never change for the better)?
        em-bee 1y ago
        this discussion reminds me of the quote by george bernard shaw: "The reasonable person adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable person"
        scarface_74 1y ago
        And how has that worked out? Right now today, people are more willing to hurt themselves as long as they “own the libs”, see immigrants get mistreated, make sure Israel is protected so Jesus has somewhere to come back to (no exaggeration and I have no opinion on what Israel is doing. I don’t know enough), and non straight non Christians are treated as second class citizens. The problem that Democrats and liberals have and why they are constantly shocked with outcomes is that despite what Michelle Obama says, this is exactly what the a large minority of the country is and always has been. They don’t care about corruption, the politics of revenge (and they cheer it), democracy, etc. The proof is in who they voted for.
        anonymars 1y ago
        Do you see the irony of stereotyping a large and diverse group of people based on the actions of an extreme few? I take away a very different lesson. Folks who are shocked at the outcomes aren't listening to what others are saying. In fact I think that it's precisely because they have been ignored, dismissed, and treated with condescension that things have come to this and this anger has festered. Folks left behind by a system that has sold them out and left them without hope for a better tomorrow. I feel Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016, because he was speaking to the same message and was also not part of that status quo system. As FDR said in 1938, "I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism...will grow in strength in our land." Of course malign actors have taken advantage of this and lied to people and told them what they wanted to hear, and the naked sabotage of the bipartisan immigration reform bill is par for the course from the same crew that sabotaged Vietnam peace talks in '68 (and possibly the Iran hostages in '80). Nevertheless, too often any concerns about immigration are immediately dismissed as racist. (This theme holds for other topics but I don't want to dilute the point). The politically connected know this stuff, but the "garbage in, garbage out" rule applies to humans and media consumption too. I blame the liars more than those who were lied to. PS, I found that Davis himself has addressed this topic: > “Every racist that I know—and I know a lot of racists—every racist that I know voted for Donald Trump,” Davis said near the end of the interview. “However,” he added, “that does not, and I expressly repeat it, that does not mean that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist. There are plenty of people, including good friends of mine, who are not racist, and who voted for Trump. A lot of people wanted a change from what they were accustomed to for the last decades … they wanted a change of the status quo, a changing of the guard. And they were willing to overlook his misogyny, his racist or bigoted comments. They just wanted that change. They were are not racist people. But every racist I know did vote for him.”
47282847 1y ago
The narrative of the college dropout turning billionaire is a myth, at least insofar as it ignores their already wealthy family background. Nothing about survivorship in there.
- anonymars 1y ago
  I believe the point is "here's how I dropped out of college and became rich, you can too" has the survivorship bias of "here are all the college dropouts who didn't become rich" This is the case with most success story biographies because luck (including "be born to a rich family with connections") plays a large role, and many others who took similar actions did not have the same successful result, therefore the advice does not guarantee success Of course the same could be said for any advice, because chance plays a role in everything I think it's a valid question, though: are you going to fail with empathy 9 times out of 10? 99 times out of 100? 999 times out of a thousand? And so on. I'm not sure what the answer is, but what I do think is it has better odds than telling people what they are supposed to think. What about shunning people? Well, I think in the past that could have gone either way: their choice was to either fit in with society or be alone. But now, everyone can find their fringey flock, which I think is why flat earthers and moon landing hoaxers are more of a thing than they were. It's not as much about the beliefs as it is the social club.
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    Again, people are suggesting that I as a Black person should “empathize” with someone who doesn’t feel like I should get equal treatment, doesn’t belong in their space, etc. But in today’s society, it’s not allowed for politicians or anyone to be openly hostile toward Black people. So they choose immigrants, non straight people or non Christians. Those people don’t deserve “empathy”.
    - 47282847 1y ago
      I think what is happening often is people having different definitions of “empathy“. For me, it is “feeling with“, being in a shared space of feelings; it’s not a cognitive skill but emotional - they are equally human/living creatures and I can sense their underlying emotions and thus reason about their motivations. This means I can both empathize and have a different point of view. Empathy, for me, does not imply sympathy, agreement or submission.

anonymars 1y ago

"Have patience and try to understand people you disagree with, and they might be open to changing their mind" isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a fundamental building block of effective human communication. Ask any good salesperson

JustExAWS 1y ago
There is a huge difference between “I don’t agree with your stance on supply side economics or universal healthcare” and “I would just as well see you hanging from a tree as sitting here next to me” or “because you decide to love someone of the same sex, you are going to bring an end to this great nation and I will do everything I can to make your life miserable”, I am not trying to “understand” anyone who thinks someone doesn’t deserve to exist.
- anonymars 1y ago
  So don't. But why insist to everyone else that engaging with prejudice and changing people's minds is impossible?
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    Yet I bet you’re not going to try to do outreach to people you know want to see you or your family harmed just because of the color of your skin…
    - anonymars 1y ago
      Why do you assume that, and what is it you would like to achieve by saying so? Do you think I champion this because I've never helped someone become less prejudiced? I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. But do you think the world will just change for the better of its own accord (or that it will never change for the better)?
      - em-bee 1y ago
        this discussion reminds me of the quote by george bernard shaw: "The reasonable person adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable person"
        scarface_74 1y ago
        And how has that worked out? Right now today, people are more willing to hurt themselves as long as they “own the libs”, see immigrants get mistreated, make sure Israel is protected so Jesus has somewhere to come back to (no exaggeration and I have no opinion on what Israel is doing. I don’t know enough), and non straight non Christians are treated as second class citizens. The problem that Democrats and liberals have and why they are constantly shocked with outcomes is that despite what Michelle Obama says, this is exactly what the a large minority of the country is and always has been. They don’t care about corruption, the politics of revenge (and they cheer it), democracy, etc. The proof is in who they voted for.
        anonymars 1y ago
        Do you see the irony of stereotyping a large and diverse group of people based on the actions of an extreme few? I take away a very different lesson. Folks who are shocked at the outcomes aren't listening to what others are saying. In fact I think that it's precisely because they have been ignored, dismissed, and treated with condescension that things have come to this and this anger has festered. Folks left behind by a system that has sold them out and left them without hope for a better tomorrow. I feel Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016, because he was speaking to the same message and was also not part of that status quo system. As FDR said in 1938, "I venture the challenging statement that if American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism...will grow in strength in our land." Of course malign actors have taken advantage of this and lied to people and told them what they wanted to hear, and the naked sabotage of the bipartisan immigration reform bill is par for the course from the same crew that sabotaged Vietnam peace talks in '68 (and possibly the Iran hostages in '80). Nevertheless, too often any concerns about immigration are immediately dismissed as racist. (This theme holds for other topics but I don't want to dilute the point). The politically connected know this stuff, but the "garbage in, garbage out" rule applies to humans and media consumption too. I blame the liars more than those who were lied to. PS, I found that Davis himself has addressed this topic: > “Every racist that I know—and I know a lot of racists—every racist that I know voted for Donald Trump,” Davis said near the end of the interview. “However,” he added, “that does not, and I expressly repeat it, that does not mean that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist. There are plenty of people, including good friends of mine, who are not racist, and who voted for Trump. A lot of people wanted a change from what they were accustomed to for the last decades … they wanted a change of the status quo, a changing of the guard. And they were willing to overlook his misogyny, his racist or bigoted comments. They just wanted that change. They were are not racist people. But every racist I know did vote for him.”

47282847 1y ago

The narrative of the college dropout turning billionaire is a myth, at least insofar as it ignores their already wealthy family background. Nothing about survivorship in there.

anonymars 1y ago
I believe the point is "here's how I dropped out of college and became rich, you can too" has the survivorship bias of "here are all the college dropouts who didn't become rich" This is the case with most success story biographies because luck (including "be born to a rich family with connections") plays a large role, and many others who took similar actions did not have the same successful result, therefore the advice does not guarantee success Of course the same could be said for any advice, because chance plays a role in everything I think it's a valid question, though: are you going to fail with empathy 9 times out of 10? 99 times out of 100? 999 times out of a thousand? And so on. I'm not sure what the answer is, but what I do think is it has better odds than telling people what they are supposed to think. What about shunning people? Well, I think in the past that could have gone either way: their choice was to either fit in with society or be alone. But now, everyone can find their fringey flock, which I think is why flat earthers and moon landing hoaxers are more of a thing than they were. It's not as much about the beliefs as it is the social club.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  Again, people are suggesting that I as a Black person should “empathize” with someone who doesn’t feel like I should get equal treatment, doesn’t belong in their space, etc. But in today’s society, it’s not allowed for politicians or anyone to be openly hostile toward Black people. So they choose immigrants, non straight people or non Christians. Those people don’t deserve “empathy”.
  - 47282847 1y ago
    I think what is happening often is people having different definitions of “empathy“. For me, it is “feeling with“, being in a shared space of feelings; it’s not a cognitive skill but emotional - they are equally human/living creatures and I can sense their underlying emotions and thus reason about their motivations. This means I can both empathize and have a different point of view. Empathy, for me, does not imply sympathy, agreement or submission.