4 ms·

Some additions: - No drug addicts - No homeless people - No drunks - If you throw your trash anywhere except the bin you get punished - If you shout into y

Some additions: - No drug addicts - No homeless people - No drunks - If you throw your trash anywhere except the bin you get punished - If you shout into your phone you get punished - If you intentionally break or deface anything you get punished If your city is full of drug addicts and anti-social people not a single thing you are going to do about zoneing will make it more "walkable". This stuff is so completely delusional. People use cars to get away from the total dysfunction and danger of cities.

bethekidyouwant 1y ago
[flagged]
- JoshTriplett 1y ago
  > Also, in the vein of this guy I think 21 is a bad idea Could you elaborate on that? I could speculate, but I'd love to know your reasons.
  - bethekidyouwant 1y ago
    No one uses the covered bus stops in my street because they’re full of homeless people slop? Once that shit gets rained on people have the heart to bin it.
  - petsfed 1y ago
    Not the parent, but weather resistant bus shelters take up a lot of space. So you're essentially trading sidewalk space for bus access.
- lurk2 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bethekidyouwant 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - lurk2 1y ago
      I lurked this forum for several years before I ever posted, which is why I don’t make Reddit-coded comments like “Who hurt you?”
  - dang 1y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- sfpotter 1y ago
  I think we should take away people's right to live in suburbs. ;-)
- constantcrying 1y ago
  >Also who hurt you? I do not own a car, I walk/bike/bus/train everywhere and almost every time it is a terrible experience. I want to have a better city, but a city does not become "walkable" or "unwalkable" because of zoning. It becomes either because it is either a good place to be or a terrible place to be. The obvious drug dealing at train stations make it a bad place, the obnoxious people with a total disregard for others make it a bad place, the trash everywhere make it a bad place, etc. If you do not make cities nice places to be nothing else matters. And if you do make them nice places, everything else will follow, since now people want to be there and will demand e.g. better zoning and infrastructure.
- dang 1y ago
  > Also who hurt you? Please don't cross into personal attack in HN comments. Also, please omit internet tropes. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
rafram 1y ago
The US already has the highest incarceration rate of any developed country, and it's not even close (we're #5, slotting in right behind Turkmenistan). Your solution to society's ills seems to be more "punishment." Do you think the wrong people are in jail? Or is there something unique to American society makes us have more people deserving of imprisonment than almost any other country in the world?
- constantcrying 1y ago
  I do not care. I also do not live in the US. I live in a country where child rape gets you probation, so I guess I want more people in prison. On further thought, maybe I actually don't, but I do not think that is the discussion.
  - rafram 1y ago
    OK, well, you're commenting on a list that primarily addresses the US.
petsfed 1y ago
You're not wrong that such things make a city less walkable, but there's also a strong argument that just punishing people, instead of, you know, addressing the underlying problem doesn't solve the problem either. It just sets up a situation where people bounce from jail (due to the realities of living on the streets) to the homeless encampment (due to unpaid fines preventing them from earning any money). Like, the whole reason the West Oakland homeless encampment has such an enormous garbage pile problem is because nobody living there can sign up for trash service, since they lack an actual address (and likely can't afford trash service anyway). So as soon as the single 30-gallon courtesy trash can gets filled up (within hours of delivery, if experience is any guide), they're on their own until that that can gets emptied. And they provide that single can for all the trash needs of the 30 or so people living adjacent to it. One of the core drivers of homelessness is the absence of affordable housing within efficient reach of public transit to get to where people work. So by setting up communities that are designed specifically for walking and public transit and are affordable for most directly addresses the main driver of homelessness, which in turn starves the friends-couch-to-homeless-encampment pipeline. Nobody goes directly from evicted to homeless encampment. Its a long fall from grace. Preventing the first step, by ensuring there's adequate housing near where the jobs are, helps prevent the final step.
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  > the whole reason the West Oakland homeless encampment has such an enormous garbage pile problem I lived in West Oakland for several years during the first .com bubble. People with houses there often didn't sign up for garbage service (or if they had, they didn't pay). I had to put a damned padlock on my garbage can just so I didn't have my own garbage dumped out and replaced by the freeloaders living next to me. They eventually notched my garbage cans with a saw so I couldn't lock them anymore. By the time I moved it was dueling piles of garbage, and it wasn't like I was the only one with the problem. I find online commenters consistently underestimate the level of antisocial behavior that accompanies much of the squalor we see, and the fact that many people simply have no interest in playing by the rules of society regardless of how many handouts you give them.
  - 1y ago

bethekidyouwant 1y ago

[flagged]

JoshTriplett 1y ago
> Also, in the vein of this guy I think 21 is a bad idea Could you elaborate on that? I could speculate, but I'd love to know your reasons.
- bethekidyouwant 1y ago
  No one uses the covered bus stops in my street because they’re full of homeless people slop? Once that shit gets rained on people have the heart to bin it.
- petsfed 1y ago
  Not the parent, but weather resistant bus shelters take up a lot of space. So you're essentially trading sidewalk space for bus access.
lurk2 1y ago
[flagged]
- bethekidyouwant 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - lurk2 1y ago
    I lurked this forum for several years before I ever posted, which is why I don’t make Reddit-coded comments like “Who hurt you?”
- dang 1y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
sfpotter 1y ago
I think we should take away people's right to live in suburbs. ;-)
constantcrying 1y ago
>Also who hurt you? I do not own a car, I walk/bike/bus/train everywhere and almost every time it is a terrible experience. I want to have a better city, but a city does not become "walkable" or "unwalkable" because of zoning. It becomes either because it is either a good place to be or a terrible place to be. The obvious drug dealing at train stations make it a bad place, the obnoxious people with a total disregard for others make it a bad place, the trash everywhere make it a bad place, etc. If you do not make cities nice places to be nothing else matters. And if you do make them nice places, everything else will follow, since now people want to be there and will demand e.g. better zoning and infrastructure.
dang 1y ago
> Also who hurt you? Please don't cross into personal attack in HN comments. Also, please omit internet tropes. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

rafram 1y ago

The US already has the highest incarceration rate of any developed country, and it's not even close (we're #5, slotting in right behind Turkmenistan). Your solution to society's ills seems to be more "punishment." Do you think the wrong people are in jail? Or is there something unique to American society makes us have more people deserving of imprisonment than almost any other country in the world?

constantcrying 1y ago
I do not care. I also do not live in the US. I live in a country where child rape gets you probation, so I guess I want more people in prison. On further thought, maybe I actually don't, but I do not think that is the discussion.
- rafram 1y ago
  OK, well, you're commenting on a list that primarily addresses the US.

petsfed 1y ago

You're not wrong that such things make a city less walkable, but there's also a strong argument that just punishing people, instead of, you know, addressing the underlying problem doesn't solve the problem either. It just sets up a situation where people bounce from jail (due to the realities of living on the streets) to the homeless encampment (due to unpaid fines preventing them from earning any money). Like, the whole reason the West Oakland homeless encampment has such an enormous garbage pile problem is because nobody living there can sign up for trash service, since they lack an actual address (and likely can't afford trash service anyway). So as soon as the single 30-gallon courtesy trash can gets filled up (within hours of delivery, if experience is any guide), they're on their own until that that can gets emptied. And they provide that single can for all the trash needs of the 30 or so people living adjacent to it. One of the core drivers of homelessness is the absence of affordable housing within efficient reach of public transit to get to where people work. So by setting up communities that are designed specifically for walking and public transit and are affordable for most directly addresses the main driver of homelessness, which in turn starves the friends-couch-to-homeless-encampment pipeline. Nobody goes directly from evicted to homeless encampment. Its a long fall from grace. Preventing the first step, by ensuring there's adequate housing near where the jobs are, helps prevent the final step.

aerostable_slug 1y ago
> the whole reason the West Oakland homeless encampment has such an enormous garbage pile problem I lived in West Oakland for several years during the first .com bubble. People with houses there often didn't sign up for garbage service (or if they had, they didn't pay). I had to put a damned padlock on my garbage can just so I didn't have my own garbage dumped out and replaced by the freeloaders living next to me. They eventually notched my garbage cans with a saw so I couldn't lock them anymore. By the time I moved it was dueling piles of garbage, and it wasn't like I was the only one with the problem. I find online commenters consistently underestimate the level of antisocial behavior that accompanies much of the squalor we see, and the fact that many people simply have no interest in playing by the rules of society regardless of how many handouts you give them.
- 1y ago