4 ms·

I don't think this is an unreasonable stance. I guess we're going with downvote=disagree for this one. It's great if you can understand and connect with someon

by taneq 1y ago

I don't think this is an unreasonable stance. I guess we're going with downvote=disagree for this one. It's great if you can understand and connect with someone who's fundamentally decent but uninformed/misinformed and so holds some questionable views. I don't know if those views really count as "values" in this sense, though. Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable. If someone feels it's okay to kick puppies, maybe I can convince them that kicking puppies is bad and they should stop, but they're still a person who is capable of being okay with kicking puppies and that's not someone I want to be friends with.

em-bee 1y ago
Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from. believing that denies others the power to change themselves.
- scarface_74 1y ago
  So go out and try to change the values of your typical rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans issues today. I’m not going to speak about other religions that I don’t know about personally. When was the last time you hung around a group of conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil rights and treating all human beings decently. How much time have you spent in the Bible Belt? There are places in the south that held segregated proms as recently as 2014. Once (the royal) you hurt my family or insult anyone I care about because of the color of their skin or about their sexuality, I don’t owe you forgiveness or an explanation for my right to exist overall or be in “your space”.
  - em-bee 1y ago
    i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too. it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.
    - scarface_74 1y ago
      Yes and if I tell my kids to drop out of school it’s also possible for them to become a billionaire because I read about a few people who did so….
      - em-bee 1y ago
        that's not a fair comparison. the risks of dropping out of school are quite different from the risks of talking to someone.
        scarface_74 1y ago
        The risk of my walking up to a klmsn rally and trying to change their heart is quite the same…
        em-bee 1y ago
        well that's a dumb thing to do. you talk to people when you are in a friendly environment, on a shared activity, where you can make friends with them. you build a friendship first. you don't confront strangers on the street. again, do take a look at what daryl davis actually did. he most certainly did not walk into the middle of a kkk rally. and you don't have to follow his example by picking out the most difficult people to work on. just making friends with people who are not the same group as you is a good start.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]

by taneq 1y ago

em-bee 1y ago

Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from. believing that denies others the power to change themselves.

scarface_74 1y ago
So go out and try to change the values of your typical rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans issues today. I’m not going to speak about other religions that I don’t know about personally. When was the last time you hung around a group of conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil rights and treating all human beings decently. How much time have you spent in the Bible Belt? There are places in the south that held segregated proms as recently as 2014. Once (the royal) you hurt my family or insult anyone I care about because of the color of their skin or about their sexuality, I don’t owe you forgiveness or an explanation for my right to exist overall or be in “your space”.
- em-bee 1y ago
  i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too. it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.
  - scarface_74 1y ago
    Yes and if I tell my kids to drop out of school it’s also possible for them to become a billionaire because I read about a few people who did so….
    - em-bee 1y ago
      that's not a fair comparison. the risks of dropping out of school are quite different from the risks of talking to someone.
      - scarface_74 1y ago
        The risk of my walking up to a klmsn rally and trying to change their heart is quite the same…
        em-bee 1y ago
        well that's a dumb thing to do. you talk to people when you are in a friendly environment, on a shared activity, where you can make friends with them. you build a friendship first. you don't confront strangers on the street. again, do take a look at what daryl davis actually did. he most certainly did not walk into the middle of a kkk rally. and you don't have to follow his example by picking out the most difficult people to work on. just making friends with people who are not the same group as you is a good start.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]