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Based on https://github.com/apache/httpd/commits?author=covener https://github.com/apache/httpd/commits?author=covener, either the committer never writes tests,

Based on https://github.com/apache/httpd/commits?author=covener https://github.com/apache/httpd/commits?author=covener, either the committer never writes tests, or this project just doesn't do testing at all. Nothing here would pass a code review at my company. Totally insane.

homebrewer 1y ago
Your company, and others like it, are of course entitled to a refund. These infrastructural projects never get any funding when everything goes well, but when an overworked maintainer screws up in good faith, everybody piles on them. The attacks on OpenSSL maintainers ten years ago were disgusting, and I think we've learned nothing since then.
- sshine 1y ago
  > The attacks on OpenSSL maintainers ten years ago were disgusting I didn't register the attacks, but I'm sure there were some when you say it. I summarized the blame on that incident xkcd's wording: "some random person has been thanklessly maintaining since 2003" https://xkcd.com/2347/ https://xkcd.com/2347/
- Joker_vD 1y ago
  No, we've learned to stop using OpenSSL. And ASF does receive funding, by the way, even if not much (slightly less than two and a half million USD in 2024).
  - Macha 1y ago
    So let's pretend this only paid for employees. 5-15 employees depending on where they live. Let's assume 1-2 admin and 13 devs. A quick eyeball of the projects list looks like about 100 projects: https://projects.apache.org/projects.html https://projects.apache.org/projects.html So each project gets funded enough for 10% of a developer. That's not enough to provide infrastructure to commercial users satisfaction.
    - Joker_vD 1y ago
      Depends on what, exactly, the developers are doing with them projects! If those are in the "maintenance mode" (no new features, just fixing bugs and making sure it still builds with newer toolchains/ecosystems), then this amount of humanpower may be quite reasonable.
      - whizzter 1y ago
        It's still a drop in the ocean, heard of that KISS-CAM CEO that got busted for cheating? His company literally seems to be built on selling hosted Apache Airflow services and just took in a series D round of 93 MUSD. Apache HTTPD still seems to run about 17% of all sites, plenty of those probably make money using the software. https://www.netcraft.com/blog/january-2025-web-server-survey https://www.netcraft.com/blog/january-2025-web-server-survey Open source is open, so naturally people can use it but the ecosystem has also been at a breaking point for years and bad actors has caught the scent of that.
      - _mlbt 1y ago
        The vast majority of ASF projects are in maintenance mode. This isn’t a bad thing, but compared to a project like the Linux kernel for example, Apache httpd is mature software that doesn’t require many full time developers to maintain.
evantbyrne 1y ago
Developers can only be as good at their jobs as their environment allows them to be. Based on the commit log for all authors, my takeaway here is that this is a legacy software project that needs better test coverage and to establish standards around adding tests when merging in contributions.

homebrewer 1y ago

Your company, and others like it, are of course entitled to a refund. These infrastructural projects never get any funding when everything goes well, but when an overworked maintainer screws up in good faith, everybody piles on them. The attacks on OpenSSL maintainers ten years ago were disgusting, and I think we've learned nothing since then.

sshine 1y ago
> The attacks on OpenSSL maintainers ten years ago were disgusting I didn't register the attacks, but I'm sure there were some when you say it. I summarized the blame on that incident xkcd's wording: "some random person has been thanklessly maintaining since 2003" https://xkcd.com/2347/ https://xkcd.com/2347/
Joker_vD 1y ago
No, we've learned to stop using OpenSSL. And ASF does receive funding, by the way, even if not much (slightly less than two and a half million USD in 2024).
- Macha 1y ago
  So let's pretend this only paid for employees. 5-15 employees depending on where they live. Let's assume 1-2 admin and 13 devs. A quick eyeball of the projects list looks like about 100 projects: https://projects.apache.org/projects.html https://projects.apache.org/projects.html So each project gets funded enough for 10% of a developer. That's not enough to provide infrastructure to commercial users satisfaction.
  - Joker_vD 1y ago
    Depends on what, exactly, the developers are doing with them projects! If those are in the "maintenance mode" (no new features, just fixing bugs and making sure it still builds with newer toolchains/ecosystems), then this amount of humanpower may be quite reasonable.
    - whizzter 1y ago
      It's still a drop in the ocean, heard of that KISS-CAM CEO that got busted for cheating? His company literally seems to be built on selling hosted Apache Airflow services and just took in a series D round of 93 MUSD. Apache HTTPD still seems to run about 17% of all sites, plenty of those probably make money using the software. https://www.netcraft.com/blog/january-2025-web-server-survey https://www.netcraft.com/blog/january-2025-web-server-survey Open source is open, so naturally people can use it but the ecosystem has also been at a breaking point for years and bad actors has caught the scent of that.
    - _mlbt 1y ago
      The vast majority of ASF projects are in maintenance mode. This isn’t a bad thing, but compared to a project like the Linux kernel for example, Apache httpd is mature software that doesn’t require many full time developers to maintain.

evantbyrne 1y ago

Developers can only be as good at their jobs as their environment allows them to be. Based on the commit log for all authors, my takeaway here is that this is a legacy software project that needs better test coverage and to establish standards around adding tests when merging in contributions.