5 ms·

Really? No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? And no complaints about how the characters look in Marvel Rivals? T

by dekrg 1y ago

Really? No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? And no complaints about how the characters look in Marvel Rivals? That aside you can word it however you want "attractive", "unrealistic beauty standards", "sexualized", or even call it "not having enough representation" but everyone knows what you are actually talking about is getting rid of good looking women in video games and not giving players a choice of having a "representative selection". As for it being purely a business decision by companies, how is Concord doing? The point being both men and women like having beautiful characters so say that it’s a business decision to have ugly characters is just not true.

cardanome 1y ago
If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? You would complain. Rightfully so. So why are other people not allowed to also complain if they are not represented in games? Why is that bad? This does not mean they want to ban certain games. It is often not even about pushing devs to create more diverse characters though that would be great but just to create awareness how certain beauty standards and ideas of normality are recreated and enforced in media. Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. There will always be a Stellar Blade but there could be also so much more.
- dekrg 1y ago
  >If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? Games are a visual medium, like movies, which is why games with attractive characters are generally more popular, and just to be clear simple graphics like in Schedule I are not unattractive or ugly. More importantly how a character looks has nothing to do with how relatable a character actually is - it an absurd premise. What you are basically saying is that people won't enjoy playing Stray because they are not cats, which obviously isn't true and doesn't make sense. It's the same in movies, when watching Wall-E people don't go "well I'm not a trash compactor so I can't relate at all". >Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. And I would agree except that in reality it isn't include non-attractive looking characters along side attractive ones, it's always to exclude what you call "standard beauty standard". As an example of this if would really is about just giving options to player then why is the breast slider in Dragonage Veilguard limited so that players can create only characters with small breasts? Where did the "representation", "inclusivity", "player choice" go to with regards to large breasts?
  - dwb 1y ago
    No one has asked for a breast slider with an unrepresentatively low maximum.
    - dekrg 1y ago
      That so? And the activist that usually complain about beauty standards and not having enough representation were angry how "unrepresentative" that was and were complaining about it to Bioware? I mean you can lie and say how no one has asked for it but the activist have complained about big breasted women in games for a long time usually under the guise of how it's sexualizing the women in games. And yes there have been straight up complaints about characters breasts being too large over the years usually when it's a non-western game.
      - dwb 1y ago
        People have complained about the predominance of women characters in games with unrepresentatively large breasts. You keep conflating things (including your own sexual preferences) and being imprecise to make arguments seem unreasonable when they’re not at all.
        dekrg 1y ago
        So women with large breasts don't exist? Or should they not be represented in video games? I'm also curious what is the appropriate size of breasts for women to have in video games and how you and others like you determined it. And of course, you also have such standards for male characters and complain about unrepresentatively good looking or buff male characters, right? And this being about sexual preferences is just you blatantly projecting. What I'm doing is pointing out how all this talk "representation" and "inclusivity" has nothing to do with actual representation and is just a thinly veiled cover for censorship.
        dwb 1y ago
        You need to read more carefully what I’ve written, I’ve never suggested that large-breasted women don’t exist or shouldn’t be represented, I talked about the trends and tendencies. I’ve been quite precise in what I’ve written. I’m also quite happy for men and all other genders and body types to see broader representation. I’m not for censorship, in general. There is a vein of conservative (self-described) feminists who are extremely anti-porn and so on; I’m not on their side. I am on the side of feminists who want to see a lot more balance in media, including video games - broadening options and horizons, not shutting anything down unless it’s truly hateful. I really can’t see anything wrong with that. It’s not “censorship” if it’s just you not getting exactly your preference all the time.
- dartharva 1y ago
  What!? I literally don't relate to any or feel represented by any character I have ever played as in a video game, and I have played hundreds. Nobody does. If anyone actually told me they "feel represented" by a fictional videogame character I will seriously worry about their mental health.
- ThrowawayR2 1y ago
  I have never read any of the great Western novels of the past and thought to myself "That was amazing but it would have been so much more relatable if characters of my own ethnicity and my own attractiveness (or rather lack thereof) and my other identity characteristics were there." Not even once. It would be incredibly self-centered and immature to ask an author to cram in a self-insert of me into their world instead of letting them create their world as they envisioned it.
dwb 1y ago
> "attractive", "unrealistic beauty standards", "sexualized", or even call it "not having enough representation" These all mean different things.
- eska 1y ago
  I remember feminists complaining about Stellar Blade’s main character looking unrealistic. Then it turned out her body was scanned from a real actress. :-)
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    If you don't think real actors and actresses look unrealistic, you must live inside Hollywood.
    - eska 1y ago
      So real people without beauty surgery are unrealistic to you, although they exist in reality. That obviously can’t be it. So I take it what you actually are trying to say is “this shouldn’t be considered the standard”? But it’s not the standard, it’s the top. And people (both men and women) like to play as characters that aren’t standard but at the top.
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        > without beauty surgery This describes a minority of the most prominent Hollywood stars.
        eska 1y ago
        You’re the one doing a no-real-scottsman here. I wasn’t talking about Hollywood actors with surgery.
oneeyedpigeon 1y ago
[dead]
tavavex 1y ago
> No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? Actually no, not really. The whole outrage around Stellar Blade was largely manufactured, spurred from an right wing influencer's mischaracterization of a (retracted) line from IGN France. IGN France and its milquetoast quote represents all the 'insane leftists' that people loved to portray in that discourse as having started the attack on the game. All the drama that stemmed from there were simply the result of people digging their heels in - right-wing people taking up SB to be their perceived savior, the unapologetic disruptor that cuts through 'ugly Western designs', while left-wing people naturally put themselves on the other side, claiming that it's a mediocre game that right-wingers only like for the sex appeal, thereby feeding the cycle. But this wasn't started by the left, there was no initial outrage, all of this was just bait. But many people still see it from the perspective of the people who incited it. And I mean, look around. Lots of games have attractive protagonists. How much outrage was there when NieR: Automata came out from 'the left'? Lots of games have extremely appealing designs, and the fact that no one seems to go against them and that they keep selling should tip you off that the perceived unanimity you're talking about is a niche and extreme opinion.
- zimpenfish 1y ago
  > The whole outrage around Stellar Blade was largely manufactured The always excellent Shaun did a deep dive[0] into the nonsense. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsSguYNHpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsSguYNHpk

by dekrg 1y ago

cardanome 1y ago

If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? You would complain. Rightfully so. So why are other people not allowed to also complain if they are not represented in games? Why is that bad? This does not mean they want to ban certain games. It is often not even about pushing devs to create more diverse characters though that would be great but just to create awareness how certain beauty standards and ideas of normality are recreated and enforced in media. Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. There will always be a Stellar Blade but there could be also so much more.

dekrg 1y ago
>If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? Games are a visual medium, like movies, which is why games with attractive characters are generally more popular, and just to be clear simple graphics like in Schedule I are not unattractive or ugly. More importantly how a character looks has nothing to do with how relatable a character actually is - it an absurd premise. What you are basically saying is that people won't enjoy playing Stray because they are not cats, which obviously isn't true and doesn't make sense. It's the same in movies, when watching Wall-E people don't go "well I'm not a trash compactor so I can't relate at all". >Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. And I would agree except that in reality it isn't include non-attractive looking characters along side attractive ones, it's always to exclude what you call "standard beauty standard". As an example of this if would really is about just giving options to player then why is the breast slider in Dragonage Veilguard limited so that players can create only characters with small breasts? Where did the "representation", "inclusivity", "player choice" go to with regards to large breasts?
- dwb 1y ago
  No one has asked for a breast slider with an unrepresentatively low maximum.
  - dekrg 1y ago
    That so? And the activist that usually complain about beauty standards and not having enough representation were angry how "unrepresentative" that was and were complaining about it to Bioware? I mean you can lie and say how no one has asked for it but the activist have complained about big breasted women in games for a long time usually under the guise of how it's sexualizing the women in games. And yes there have been straight up complaints about characters breasts being too large over the years usually when it's a non-western game.
    - dwb 1y ago
      People have complained about the predominance of women characters in games with unrepresentatively large breasts. You keep conflating things (including your own sexual preferences) and being imprecise to make arguments seem unreasonable when they’re not at all.
      - dekrg 1y ago
        So women with large breasts don't exist? Or should they not be represented in video games? I'm also curious what is the appropriate size of breasts for women to have in video games and how you and others like you determined it. And of course, you also have such standards for male characters and complain about unrepresentatively good looking or buff male characters, right? And this being about sexual preferences is just you blatantly projecting. What I'm doing is pointing out how all this talk "representation" and "inclusivity" has nothing to do with actual representation and is just a thinly veiled cover for censorship.
        dwb 1y ago
        You need to read more carefully what I’ve written, I’ve never suggested that large-breasted women don’t exist or shouldn’t be represented, I talked about the trends and tendencies. I’ve been quite precise in what I’ve written. I’m also quite happy for men and all other genders and body types to see broader representation. I’m not for censorship, in general. There is a vein of conservative (self-described) feminists who are extremely anti-porn and so on; I’m not on their side. I am on the side of feminists who want to see a lot more balance in media, including video games - broadening options and horizons, not shutting anything down unless it’s truly hateful. I really can’t see anything wrong with that. It’s not “censorship” if it’s just you not getting exactly your preference all the time.
dartharva 1y ago
What!? I literally don't relate to any or feel represented by any character I have ever played as in a video game, and I have played hundreds. Nobody does. If anyone actually told me they "feel represented" by a fictional videogame character I will seriously worry about their mental health.
ThrowawayR2 1y ago
I have never read any of the great Western novels of the past and thought to myself "That was amazing but it would have been so much more relatable if characters of my own ethnicity and my own attractiveness (or rather lack thereof) and my other identity characteristics were there." Not even once. It would be incredibly self-centered and immature to ask an author to cram in a self-insert of me into their world instead of letting them create their world as they envisioned it.

dwb 1y ago

> "attractive", "unrealistic beauty standards", "sexualized", or even call it "not having enough representation" These all mean different things.

eska 1y ago
I remember feminists complaining about Stellar Blade’s main character looking unrealistic. Then it turned out her body was scanned from a real actress. :-)
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  If you don't think real actors and actresses look unrealistic, you must live inside Hollywood.
  - eska 1y ago
    So real people without beauty surgery are unrealistic to you, although they exist in reality. That obviously can’t be it. So I take it what you actually are trying to say is “this shouldn’t be considered the standard”? But it’s not the standard, it’s the top. And people (both men and women) like to play as characters that aren’t standard but at the top.
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      > without beauty surgery This describes a minority of the most prominent Hollywood stars.
      - eska 1y ago
        You’re the one doing a no-real-scottsman here. I wasn’t talking about Hollywood actors with surgery.

oneeyedpigeon 1y ago

[dead]

tavavex 1y ago

> No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? Actually no, not really. The whole outrage around Stellar Blade was largely manufactured, spurred from an right wing influencer's mischaracterization of a (retracted) line from IGN France. IGN France and its milquetoast quote represents all the 'insane leftists' that people loved to portray in that discourse as having started the attack on the game. All the drama that stemmed from there were simply the result of people digging their heels in - right-wing people taking up SB to be their perceived savior, the unapologetic disruptor that cuts through 'ugly Western designs', while left-wing people naturally put themselves on the other side, claiming that it's a mediocre game that right-wingers only like for the sex appeal, thereby feeding the cycle. But this wasn't started by the left, there was no initial outrage, all of this was just bait. But many people still see it from the perspective of the people who incited it. And I mean, look around. Lots of games have attractive protagonists. How much outrage was there when NieR: Automata came out from 'the left'? Lots of games have extremely appealing designs, and the fact that no one seems to go against them and that they keep selling should tip you off that the perceived unanimity you're talking about is a niche and extreme opinion.

zimpenfish 1y ago
> The whole outrage around Stellar Blade was largely manufactured The always excellent Shaun did a deep dive[0] into the nonsense. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsSguYNHpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPsSguYNHpk