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And in turn they are ultimately being pressured by Evangelicals.

by popalchemist 1y ago

0xy 1y ago
The pressure against Valve came from Collective Shout, a non-religious feminist NGO.
- cardanome 1y ago
  > feminist The founder of collective shout Melinda Tankard Reist is against abortions. They are also working with a lot of conservative organizations. Sounds more like reactionaries in feminist clothing pretending to care about feminism for tactical reasons. Especially as their actions are hurting LGBTQ+ people. It also the perfect storm to drive more people towards the right by "look those evil feminists are taking our games". Even though these people are not representative for progressive feminism.
  - dekrg 1y ago
    Feminists and the far left have been complaining about attractive women in games and not enough inclusivity for the past 10 years and you think is some grand rightwing conspiracy? Also if you think "real" feminists would be for adult games targeted at men you might be straight up delusional.
    - dwb 1y ago
      No-one has complained about “attractive women in games”, that is a mischaracterisation. “Attractive” is a subjective judgement anyway. People have complained about the predominance of women in video games adhering to a particular set of beauty standards, to the near exclusion of anyone else. It should be very uncontroversial to want a representative selection of people in games. And for the production companies, it makes obvious business sense.
      - dekrg 1y ago
        Really? No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? And no complaints about how the characters look in Marvel Rivals? That aside you can word it however you want "attractive", "unrealistic beauty standards", "sexualized", or even call it "not having enough representation" but everyone knows what you are actually talking about is getting rid of good looking women in video games and not giving players a choice of having a "representative selection". As for it being purely a business decision by companies, how is Concord doing? The point being both men and women like having beautiful characters so say that it’s a business decision to have ugly characters is just not true.
        cardanome 1y ago
        If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? You would complain. Rightfully so. So why are other people not allowed to also complain if they are not represented in games? Why is that bad? This does not mean they want to ban certain games. It is often not even about pushing devs to create more diverse characters though that would be great but just to create awareness how certain beauty standards and ideas of normality are recreated and enforced in media. Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. There will always be a Stellar Blade but there could be also so much more.
        dekrg 1y ago
        >If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? Games are a visual medium, like movies, which is why games with attractive characters are generally more popular, and just to be clear simple graphics like in Schedule I are not unattractive or ugly. More importantly how a character looks has nothing to do with how relatable a character actually is - it an absurd premise. What you are basically saying is that people won't enjoy playing Stray because they are not cats, which obviously isn't true and doesn't make sense. It's the same in movies, when watching Wall-E people don't go "well I'm not a trash compactor so I can't relate at all". >Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. And I would agree except that in reality it isn't include non-attractive looking characters along side attractive ones, it's always to exclude what you call "standard beauty standard". As an example of this if would really is about just giving options to player then why is the breast slider in Dragonage Veilguard limited so that players can create only characters with small breasts? Where did the "representation", "inclusivity", "player choice" go to with regards to large breasts?
  - ImJamal 1y ago
    Believe it or not, but not all feminists are progressive. Some think that women in porn is negative to all women. Same with abortion. There is also no reason why feminism would need to support LGBT? The point of feminism should be to support women.
    - snvzz 1y ago
      The LGB and then LGBT and then LGBT++ thing is the result of a destructive, diluting strategy known as co-opting. Something similar was attempted against atheism. ("Atheism+")
      - ImJamal 1y ago
        [flagged]
        roguecoder 1y ago
        [flagged]
        ImJamal 1y ago
        What are you even trying to say? Women don't want to experience violence and fear. This is one of the things the feminist movement was trying to solve. Now that many of them are experiencing fear in bathrooms you think they are transphobes. Why do you reject the idea that women should feel safe in bathrooms? Okay anti-feminist.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - cardanome 1y ago
      > There is also no reason why feminism would need to support LGBT? Because lesbian, trans and generally queer women exist? Even if you were to only care about cis hetero women, it is silly to think that transphobes will only keep attacking trans women. As lot of cis women have been "transvestigated", have been harassed in bathrooms for "looking trans" and so on. So even cis women will ultimately suffer if no one speaks up against bigots. The window of what they are allowed to wear, look like, how they are supposed to behave gets smaller and smaller. The enemy is the same. The same patriarchal reactionary ideology that wants to punish any difference to the imagined norm. Ultimately it is a class war and the rich pricks are winning. It is liking saying "why should I defend Jews, I am not a Jew.". Sure they might not come for you first but they will come for you eventually. United we are strong. Divided they will get us one by one. If you are pretend to be feminist but throw your trans sister under the bus, you are a traitor not a feminist.
- popalchemist 1y ago
  I believe they are extremist in more ways than feminism, my understanding is that the founder is commonly regarded as a "conservative religious fundamentalist", so much so that there is a blurb about it on her wiki.
- npteljes 1y ago
  Hardly will an org with 45k Facebook likes pressure payment processort to pressure Valve to delist games. This is not adding up, at all.

And in turn they are ultimately being pressured by Evangelicals.

0xy 1y ago

The pressure against Valve came from Collective Shout, a non-religious feminist NGO.

cardanome 1y ago
> feminist The founder of collective shout Melinda Tankard Reist is against abortions. They are also working with a lot of conservative organizations. Sounds more like reactionaries in feminist clothing pretending to care about feminism for tactical reasons. Especially as their actions are hurting LGBTQ+ people. It also the perfect storm to drive more people towards the right by "look those evil feminists are taking our games". Even though these people are not representative for progressive feminism.
- dekrg 1y ago
  Feminists and the far left have been complaining about attractive women in games and not enough inclusivity for the past 10 years and you think is some grand rightwing conspiracy? Also if you think "real" feminists would be for adult games targeted at men you might be straight up delusional.
  - dwb 1y ago
    No-one has complained about “attractive women in games”, that is a mischaracterisation. “Attractive” is a subjective judgement anyway. People have complained about the predominance of women in video games adhering to a particular set of beauty standards, to the near exclusion of anyone else. It should be very uncontroversial to want a representative selection of people in games. And for the production companies, it makes obvious business sense.
    - dekrg 1y ago
      Really? No one for example complained about the attractive main character in Stellar Blade? And no complaints about how the characters look in Marvel Rivals? That aside you can word it however you want "attractive", "unrealistic beauty standards", "sexualized", or even call it "not having enough representation" but everyone knows what you are actually talking about is getting rid of good looking women in video games and not giving players a choice of having a "representative selection". As for it being purely a business decision by companies, how is Concord doing? The point being both men and women like having beautiful characters so say that it’s a business decision to have ugly characters is just not true.
      - cardanome 1y ago
        If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? You would complain. Rightfully so. So why are other people not allowed to also complain if they are not represented in games? Why is that bad? This does not mean they want to ban certain games. It is often not even about pushing devs to create more diverse characters though that would be great but just to create awareness how certain beauty standards and ideas of normality are recreated and enforced in media. Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. There will always be a Stellar Blade but there could be also so much more.
        dekrg 1y ago
        >If all the characters in games were people that you couldn't relate to and that you don't feel represented by, you wouldn't like that, no? Games are a visual medium, like movies, which is why games with attractive characters are generally more popular, and just to be clear simple graphics like in Schedule I are not unattractive or ugly. More importantly how a character looks has nothing to do with how relatable a character actually is - it an absurd premise. What you are basically saying is that people won't enjoy playing Stray because they are not cats, which obviously isn't true and doesn't make sense. It's the same in movies, when watching Wall-E people don't go "well I'm not a trash compactor so I can't relate at all". >Embracing that people are different is something that is good for everyone. And I would agree except that in reality it isn't include non-attractive looking characters along side attractive ones, it's always to exclude what you call "standard beauty standard". As an example of this if would really is about just giving options to player then why is the breast slider in Dragonage Veilguard limited so that players can create only characters with small breasts? Where did the "representation", "inclusivity", "player choice" go to with regards to large breasts?
- ImJamal 1y ago
  Believe it or not, but not all feminists are progressive. Some think that women in porn is negative to all women. Same with abortion. There is also no reason why feminism would need to support LGBT? The point of feminism should be to support women.
  - snvzz 1y ago
    The LGB and then LGBT and then LGBT++ thing is the result of a destructive, diluting strategy known as co-opting. Something similar was attempted against atheism. ("Atheism+")
    - ImJamal 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - roguecoder 1y ago
        [flagged]
        ImJamal 1y ago
        What are you even trying to say? Women don't want to experience violence and fear. This is one of the things the feminist movement was trying to solve. Now that many of them are experiencing fear in bathrooms you think they are transphobes. Why do you reject the idea that women should feel safe in bathrooms? Okay anti-feminist.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - cardanome 1y ago
    > There is also no reason why feminism would need to support LGBT? Because lesbian, trans and generally queer women exist? Even if you were to only care about cis hetero women, it is silly to think that transphobes will only keep attacking trans women. As lot of cis women have been "transvestigated", have been harassed in bathrooms for "looking trans" and so on. So even cis women will ultimately suffer if no one speaks up against bigots. The window of what they are allowed to wear, look like, how they are supposed to behave gets smaller and smaller. The enemy is the same. The same patriarchal reactionary ideology that wants to punish any difference to the imagined norm. Ultimately it is a class war and the rich pricks are winning. It is liking saying "why should I defend Jews, I am not a Jew.". Sure they might not come for you first but they will come for you eventually. United we are strong. Divided they will get us one by one. If you are pretend to be feminist but throw your trans sister under the bus, you are a traitor not a feminist.
popalchemist 1y ago
I believe they are extremist in more ways than feminism, my understanding is that the founder is commonly regarded as a "conservative religious fundamentalist", so much so that there is a blurb about it on her wiki.
npteljes 1y ago
Hardly will an org with 45k Facebook likes pressure payment processort to pressure Valve to delist games. This is not adding up, at all.