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For those who think this is about just banning adult content, think again. What's actually happening is any content disliked by certain billionaires is being f

For those who think this is about just banning adult content, think again. What's actually happening is any content disliked by certain billionaires is being flagged by payment providers under their influence. When they see something they disagree with, they'll send an email to the CEO of Visa or MasterCard and action gets taken.

mschuster91 1y ago
The problem is, Steam, Itch, Pornhub - they all had ample warnings and complaints about the kind of content they're hosting, but chose to forego introducing moderation in favor of continuing to make profit. Complaints about Pornhub went ignored for years, for example, until enough pressure built up. And it's a similar same case for Facebook. The EU complained for years about anything from hate speech spread by the general public to outright propaganda campaigns, Facebook did nothing - but complained when the EU finally had enough and introduced the DSA.
- itake 1y ago
  How would have applying moderation years ago enabled Itch and Steam to sell porn games today?
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    Applying moderation and reacting to legitimate complaints in time would have prevented pressure from building up so massively that payment networks or politicians even have a leg to stand on. It's one thing to have occasional issues with stuff slipping through the cracks, that happens. But it's a completely different thing to just not do anything for years. In the case of Steam, let's just take the recent Nazi scandal [1] - reports of users using blatant Nazi imagery and vocabulary date back almost a decade [2] and that's the oldest thing I could find in a minute of Googling, I 'member this being a thing even years before Trump's first presidency but honestly I can't be bothered to search for more old Nazi shit at 9 o'clock in the morning. Had Steam done something about the Nazis back in 2017, I guarantee you that 2024 Bloomberg piece wouldn't ever have come into existence. That's seven years in which Steam did nothing to combat users using swastikas - stuff that could trivially be caught using machine learning, even back in the time. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-14/white-supremacist-nazi-content-spread-on-steam-gaming-platform https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-14/white-sup... [2] https://forum.gamespodcast.de/viewtopic.php?t=2478 https://forum.gamespodcast.de/viewtopic.php?t=2478
    - Numerlor 1y ago
      > Applying moderation and reacting to legitimate complaints in time would have prevented pressure from building up so massively that payment networks or politicians even have a leg to stand on. How would moderation help when the games that are being removed from the platforms are perfectly legal, and in compliance with the terms the platforms out on the creators? The only problem with the games is that a highly influential group of people views them as immoral, and use them as a stepping stone towards achieving their broader goal of censoring all adult content. The nazi thing may have brought a little bit more attention to Steam but I really can't imagine it was a big decisive factor instead of Steam's allowing of porn games and displaying them on the best selling lists with the adult options enabled
    - Mindwipe 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
        That's not the reason it's nonsense. It's that "they should have done something" is an anecdote-based complaint that ignores everything they actually do. If some service takes reasonable measures and solves the large majority of the problem, there will still be some instances that they miss and then critics will point to them and claim they're not doing enough. If they take more aggressive measures that aren't worth the candle, there will still be some instances that they miss and then critics will point to them and claim they're not doing enough. It's "meet the impossible standard of having no bad things ever happen or you're not doing enough and we have to pass these bad laws".
        mschuster91 1y ago
        > there will still be some instances that they miss We're talking about hundreds if not thousands of complaints here for Pornhub, that went ignored for years. We're talking about highest level politicians in the EU raising serious stink first, then threatening regulation and only then following through with it in Meta's case. That's far, far beyond "some instances".
- patchymcnoodles 1y ago
  I agree only partially with you. Yes some problems were ignored for far too long, but these providers sometimes block stuff that is just adult content. And it is an issue, if a small amount of providers have so much power. Visa and Mastercard more or less have the entire market. Both US american as well, so not even an alternative from other countries. And with Facebook: I mean yes theoretically it is good that the EU is trying to do something, I'm all up for it. But Facebook is in my opinion worse than it ever was and gets more worse every day.
- freehorse 1y ago
  Pornhub hosted material featuring sex trafficked women for years without taking serious action. Other porn sites were doing the same. I do not see how a game in steam or itch.io where everything is fictional is anywhere close to that or requiring such moderation. This is a totally different issue, in the same way that a game involving killing others is not the same as an actual video of somebody killing people. Shall we ban books featuring similar themes too?
  - IncandescentGas 1y ago
    The payment processors have been held criminally and civilly liable in court for processing payments for pornhub. I don't see how we can expect Visa/MC to not censor their customers, if we also intend to hold them criminally liable for the actions of their customers in such cases. If Visa spends years in criminal court because a book store accepted a credit card payment for an illegal book, then yes, expect Visa to start placing limits on card processing for bookstores.
    - roguecoder 1y ago
      Do you have examples where there has been criminal or civil liability for a purely-fictional game?
senectus1 1y ago
interesting claim. I'm not saying I dont believe you, but do you have any form of evidence to back this claim?
- aussieguy1234 1y ago
  https://omny.fm/shows/hot-money/episode-5-the-billionaire-who-took-down-porn https://omny.fm/shows/hot-money/episode-5-the-billionaire-wh... This particular example is also porn but you can see how the same method could be used for anything else even remotely controversial.

mschuster91 1y ago

The problem is, Steam, Itch, Pornhub - they all had ample warnings and complaints about the kind of content they're hosting, but chose to forego introducing moderation in favor of continuing to make profit. Complaints about Pornhub went ignored for years, for example, until enough pressure built up. And it's a similar same case for Facebook. The EU complained for years about anything from hate speech spread by the general public to outright propaganda campaigns, Facebook did nothing - but complained when the EU finally had enough and introduced the DSA.

itake 1y ago
How would have applying moderation years ago enabled Itch and Steam to sell porn games today?
- mschuster91 1y ago
  Applying moderation and reacting to legitimate complaints in time would have prevented pressure from building up so massively that payment networks or politicians even have a leg to stand on. It's one thing to have occasional issues with stuff slipping through the cracks, that happens. But it's a completely different thing to just not do anything for years. In the case of Steam, let's just take the recent Nazi scandal [1] - reports of users using blatant Nazi imagery and vocabulary date back almost a decade [2] and that's the oldest thing I could find in a minute of Googling, I 'member this being a thing even years before Trump's first presidency but honestly I can't be bothered to search for more old Nazi shit at 9 o'clock in the morning. Had Steam done something about the Nazis back in 2017, I guarantee you that 2024 Bloomberg piece wouldn't ever have come into existence. That's seven years in which Steam did nothing to combat users using swastikas - stuff that could trivially be caught using machine learning, even back in the time. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-14/white-supremacist-nazi-content-spread-on-steam-gaming-platform https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-14/white-sup... [2] https://forum.gamespodcast.de/viewtopic.php?t=2478 https://forum.gamespodcast.de/viewtopic.php?t=2478
  - Numerlor 1y ago
    > Applying moderation and reacting to legitimate complaints in time would have prevented pressure from building up so massively that payment networks or politicians even have a leg to stand on. How would moderation help when the games that are being removed from the platforms are perfectly legal, and in compliance with the terms the platforms out on the creators? The only problem with the games is that a highly influential group of people views them as immoral, and use them as a stepping stone towards achieving their broader goal of censoring all adult content. The nazi thing may have brought a little bit more attention to Steam but I really can't imagine it was a big decisive factor instead of Steam's allowing of porn games and displaying them on the best selling lists with the adult options enabled
  - Mindwipe 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
      That's not the reason it's nonsense. It's that "they should have done something" is an anecdote-based complaint that ignores everything they actually do. If some service takes reasonable measures and solves the large majority of the problem, there will still be some instances that they miss and then critics will point to them and claim they're not doing enough. If they take more aggressive measures that aren't worth the candle, there will still be some instances that they miss and then critics will point to them and claim they're not doing enough. It's "meet the impossible standard of having no bad things ever happen or you're not doing enough and we have to pass these bad laws".
      - mschuster91 1y ago
        > there will still be some instances that they miss We're talking about hundreds if not thousands of complaints here for Pornhub, that went ignored for years. We're talking about highest level politicians in the EU raising serious stink first, then threatening regulation and only then following through with it in Meta's case. That's far, far beyond "some instances".
patchymcnoodles 1y ago
I agree only partially with you. Yes some problems were ignored for far too long, but these providers sometimes block stuff that is just adult content. And it is an issue, if a small amount of providers have so much power. Visa and Mastercard more or less have the entire market. Both US american as well, so not even an alternative from other countries. And with Facebook: I mean yes theoretically it is good that the EU is trying to do something, I'm all up for it. But Facebook is in my opinion worse than it ever was and gets more worse every day.
freehorse 1y ago
Pornhub hosted material featuring sex trafficked women for years without taking serious action. Other porn sites were doing the same. I do not see how a game in steam or itch.io where everything is fictional is anywhere close to that or requiring such moderation. This is a totally different issue, in the same way that a game involving killing others is not the same as an actual video of somebody killing people. Shall we ban books featuring similar themes too?
- IncandescentGas 1y ago
  The payment processors have been held criminally and civilly liable in court for processing payments for pornhub. I don't see how we can expect Visa/MC to not censor their customers, if we also intend to hold them criminally liable for the actions of their customers in such cases. If Visa spends years in criminal court because a book store accepted a credit card payment for an illegal book, then yes, expect Visa to start placing limits on card processing for bookstores.
  - roguecoder 1y ago
    Do you have examples where there has been criminal or civil liability for a purely-fictional game?

senectus1 1y ago

interesting claim. I'm not saying I dont believe you, but do you have any form of evidence to back this claim?

aussieguy1234 1y ago
https://omny.fm/shows/hot-money/episode-5-the-billionaire-who-took-down-porn https://omny.fm/shows/hot-money/episode-5-the-billionaire-wh... This particular example is also porn but you can see how the same method could be used for anything else even remotely controversial.