6 ms·

For those that are getting into cocktails, by far the best piece of advice I can give is: know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. If it

For those that are getting into cocktails, by far the best piece of advice I can give is: know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. If it’s a very sugary/salty drink, or people are smoking, or already drunk, most people won’t care, but for a lot of cocktails the ingredients make a massive difference. The best bang for your buck is Carpano Antica, a sweet vermouth with real complexity to it; the worst value is high end vodka.

azhenley 1y ago
Do you have a ranked list of items that pay off to spend a bit more versus doesn’t matter?
- addaon 1y ago
  #1) Good Maraschino cherries or similar.
  - terribleperson 1y ago
    Good maraschino cherries are expensive and yet so incredibly good they're absolutely worth it. The syrup they're in is also incredible.
    - addaon 1y ago
      I have never poured them into a cereal bowl with whole milk and used a spoon. Or so I claim.
  - technothrasher 1y ago
    Amarena Fabbri cherries are my go to for a Manhattan. So much better than even the good Maraschinos.
    - addaon 1y ago
      Agreed.
- refactor_master 1y ago
  It's just simple food science really. Cooling things down reduces harshness and complexity. Sweetening things reduces harshness and complexity. So if you're going for something cool and sweet, don't mix it with high end liquors, because you probably won't really notice a big difference.
- yojo 1y ago
  General rules for cocktails: - Avoid the big brands for Tequila and Rum (Cuervo and Bacardi). There are exceptions, but it’s easier to skip. - Cheap gin can be good or bad. Gordon’s is a reasonable entry. The step up is Beefeater or Tanqueray. There are a bajillion craft gins and you can skip them until you’re ready to go deep. - Tequila should always say 100% puro de agave on the bottle. If it does not say this, do not buy it. - Anything that says “straight bourbon” on the bottle is probably fine. - For scotch, look for single malt (best) or blended malt (acceptable) if you plan on sipping it. For mixers, I like Bank Note or Famous Grouse. Avoid the lower tiers of the big blends (Johnny Walker, Dewars, etc) - they are mostly grain alcohol. - I don’t have an opinion on Vodka. If you do for some reason want it, Polish brands seem to be the best value (Sobieski, Luksusowa, etc). - For “rye” look for something bottled in bond. Don’t pick up a Canadian rye unless you know what you’re doing. They are not the same, and most Canadian rye is not good. - Rum is kind of hard. There are actually very different styles appropriate for different things, and tons of brands at similar price points that can be great or awful. For funk, look for Hamilton pot still, Rum Bar, Wray and Nephew, Doctor Bird, or Smith and Cross. For a cleaner style, look at Plantation 3 star as an entry level. - always squeeze your own citrus juice (lemon/lime/orange). Orange should not be squeezed ahead of time. Lemon/Lime can be done a few hours before or to order, depending on personal preference. - skip Rose’s anything (grenadine, cordial, etc). - Angostura is a great all-around bitter. Add Regan’s Orange bitters and you’re all set unless you want to go deep on the hobby. I have spent a lot of time in this rabbit hole, happy to answer specific questions.
  - mNovak 1y ago
    I'll add to this, there's no reason to buy simple syrup! You can make it in a mug in the microwave in 30s, and it'll hold in the fridge for a while. And the only counterpoint is pineapple juice, which you should just buy in the can -- it doesn't hold long at all once in air.
    - yojo 1y ago
      Absolutely make your own syrups! If you add a little bit of alcohol to your simple syrup (I use vodka or a clean rum), you can drastically extend the shelf life. Honey syrup is even easier to make, just mix 50/50 honey and hot water. Subbing for simple syrup gives interesting results in most drinks. Grenadine is also super easy - buy a bottle of POM and mix juice 50:50 with sugar. I like to add a little pomegranate molasses (get at a middle-east specialty market) to kick up the flavor, but not necessary. Re: pineapple. If you are able to press your own pineapple juice you absolutely should, but agree that most people do not have the necessary equipment. Trader Joe’s sells bottles of fresh pressed pineapple juice that is excellent, if you’re fortunate enough to live by one. Otherwise yeah, canned is the way to go.
- nycdatasci 1y ago
  If the goal is to get drunk, there are lots of cheap ways to do it and it's fine to buy high-fructose-corn-syrup-based "mixers". If you're looking for great cocktails, consider the PDT (Please Don't Tell) book and/or app by Jim Meehan. When his recipes call for lemon juice, you'll be buying and squeezing (do not buy "fresh squeezed lemon juice"). If you want more of a sensory experience, take recipes from the Aviary in Chicago (they also sell a book). Prepare to spend several days preparing each drink.
bryanlarsen 1y ago
> worst value is high end vodka. For mixing, definitely. If you're drinking it straight, the subtle complexity of a good vodka is nice.
- miketery 1y ago
  You don’t need to spend anything more than kettle one. It’s a super simple lab process it’s not like whiskey which has a lot of complexity.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    Biggest differences I see are between grain and potato based. I love rye base vodka. It has a sutle sweetness and almost oily mouth feel. I go for Sobieski most of the time.
- TheBoozyGenius 1y ago
  Finally someone who ''Gets It''.
- antonvs 1y ago
  If it's not 100% pure ethanol, are you even a connoisseur?
- Barbing 1y ago
  Does this bear out in double-blind tests?
- mgaunard 1y ago
  People who never had Belvedere or Chopin simply don't know that a vodka shot doesn't have to be a painful experience.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Vodka for some reason has always made me nauseated and it often did result in vomiting. None of the other alcohols have ever made me nauseated or nor made me puke, not even in high, undiluted amounts. So I realized if I do want to get drunk, I cannot go wrong with whiskey. Maybe there is a vodka that would be different.
crystal_revenge 1y ago
My advice would be: Every cocktail has an unlisted ingredient that makes or breaks the drink - ice water. Shaking or stirring a cocktail doesn’t just make it colder, it dilutes it as well. Getting this right is very often the difference between a good and bad drink. I demonstrated this once when a friend complained that it was so hard to get a good cocktail, especially getting good ingredients. All they had in their kitchen was some gin and some other slightly floral novelty liqueur. I just took a spoon and a glass and stirred them something based on the ratios for a martini and they said it was one of the best cocktails they have had! Balancing chill and dilution, even in more complex drinks, is essential. A good way to experiment is to make batch chilled cocktails in which case you need to explicitly measure out the water you’re adding.
- avanai 1y ago
  The other magic ingredient is salt. A tiny pinch of salt can balance out sour and bitter flavors in surprising ways, and be otherwise undetectable. I’ve “fixed” a lot of cocktails that way.
  - lawik 1y ago
    This reminds me of when a student pub hosted a wedding party. As we got to the dance floor there were drinks on offer. I grabbed a Cuba Libre and essentially went "oh, that's the roughest on I've had, must be cheap cola on truly awful booze". Kept on sipping. Someone else complained. Then another one. We go back to investigate. Bartender has a taste. Grimacing. Like bad and maybe salty? Takes a minute before they track it down. They'd mixed up the salted ice cubes they used to keep champagne cold with the ones they use for drinks. That one was rough. I had politely worked through my drink before we launched the investigation. Good party though and I did get a new drink which tasted fine. I'm sure a tiny pinch can do wonders. Salted cubes, not recommended.
  - codyb 1y ago
    A little pinch of salt in the water is recommended for drip coffee as well to add a pop to the flavors and reduce bitterness.
  - 1y ago
djoldman 1y ago
I do enjoy Antica. That being said, IMHO sweet vermouths vary a lot. Enough that I'd pick one over another depending on the cocktail.
- wrsh07 1y ago
  And they taste good/interesting on their own. If you're making drinks at home, try out the ingredients! I rather like a sweet vermouth, and you can feature it strongly in eg a gin and it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and-it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and... Some recipes call for 1:2 ratio, but the 1:1 works well! Give it a try
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  Punt et Mes is also really good but very different flavor profile. More like the historic flavor of "sweet" vermouth which was actually more bitter.
yojo 1y ago
Antica is very particular, IMO. It’s good, but lots of vanilla flavor, which doesn’t work everywhere. Honestly Martini and Rossi is totally adequate, and I wouldn’t bother stepping up until your palette is dialed in.
- jen729w 1y ago
  I think anyone could immediately appreciate the difference between a negroni made with Antica vs. Rossi. It's night and day. The Antica lends a far deeper flavour vs. the brash sweetness of the Rossi. The gin, on the other hand: just get the cheapest stuff you can find. Our go-to was Aldi's store brand. Campari, of course, has the middle ingredient all stitched up.
  - yojo 1y ago
    I still disagree. The vanilla is just too much in a negroni. I’d rather use Dolin, or the Death & Co 50/50 Dolin/Punt e Mes mix if I think I can get through both bottles before they oxidize. But Martini & Rossi is fine. It does the job well enough to understand the drinks, and you can start trying the pricier stuff once you decide if you even like them. Also, hard disagree on “buy the cheapest gin.” Gordon’s is better than everything else on the bottom shelf at a regular liquor store, but often costs a buck or two more. Way better than Seagrams, or something like New Amsterdam that isn’t even a London Dry. I don’t have an Aldi to compare to. Kirkland Signature is fine if we’re doing store brands. No argument on Campari. That’s just truth.
cpfohl 1y ago
I like to doctor bad sweet vermouths with a barspoon of Cynar. Goes a long way to add the missing complexity, and if you're sparing enough even a Cynar hater won't mind it.
jjice 1y ago
> know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. Very good point. The first time I had a Gin and Tonic with a fresh squeezed lime half and a good tonic water was mind blowing. I had thought that sour mix was just as good as a fresh lime and that all tonic water was the same, but man I was wrong.

azhenley 1y ago

Do you have a ranked list of items that pay off to spend a bit more versus doesn’t matter?

addaon 1y ago
#1) Good Maraschino cherries or similar.
- terribleperson 1y ago
  Good maraschino cherries are expensive and yet so incredibly good they're absolutely worth it. The syrup they're in is also incredible.
  - addaon 1y ago
    I have never poured them into a cereal bowl with whole milk and used a spoon. Or so I claim.
- technothrasher 1y ago
  Amarena Fabbri cherries are my go to for a Manhattan. So much better than even the good Maraschinos.
  - addaon 1y ago
    Agreed.
refactor_master 1y ago
It's just simple food science really. Cooling things down reduces harshness and complexity. Sweetening things reduces harshness and complexity. So if you're going for something cool and sweet, don't mix it with high end liquors, because you probably won't really notice a big difference.
yojo 1y ago
General rules for cocktails: - Avoid the big brands for Tequila and Rum (Cuervo and Bacardi). There are exceptions, but it’s easier to skip. - Cheap gin can be good or bad. Gordon’s is a reasonable entry. The step up is Beefeater or Tanqueray. There are a bajillion craft gins and you can skip them until you’re ready to go deep. - Tequila should always say 100% puro de agave on the bottle. If it does not say this, do not buy it. - Anything that says “straight bourbon” on the bottle is probably fine. - For scotch, look for single malt (best) or blended malt (acceptable) if you plan on sipping it. For mixers, I like Bank Note or Famous Grouse. Avoid the lower tiers of the big blends (Johnny Walker, Dewars, etc) - they are mostly grain alcohol. - I don’t have an opinion on Vodka. If you do for some reason want it, Polish brands seem to be the best value (Sobieski, Luksusowa, etc). - For “rye” look for something bottled in bond. Don’t pick up a Canadian rye unless you know what you’re doing. They are not the same, and most Canadian rye is not good. - Rum is kind of hard. There are actually very different styles appropriate for different things, and tons of brands at similar price points that can be great or awful. For funk, look for Hamilton pot still, Rum Bar, Wray and Nephew, Doctor Bird, or Smith and Cross. For a cleaner style, look at Plantation 3 star as an entry level. - always squeeze your own citrus juice (lemon/lime/orange). Orange should not be squeezed ahead of time. Lemon/Lime can be done a few hours before or to order, depending on personal preference. - skip Rose’s anything (grenadine, cordial, etc). - Angostura is a great all-around bitter. Add Regan’s Orange bitters and you’re all set unless you want to go deep on the hobby. I have spent a lot of time in this rabbit hole, happy to answer specific questions.
- mNovak 1y ago
  I'll add to this, there's no reason to buy simple syrup! You can make it in a mug in the microwave in 30s, and it'll hold in the fridge for a while. And the only counterpoint is pineapple juice, which you should just buy in the can -- it doesn't hold long at all once in air.
  - yojo 1y ago
    Absolutely make your own syrups! If you add a little bit of alcohol to your simple syrup (I use vodka or a clean rum), you can drastically extend the shelf life. Honey syrup is even easier to make, just mix 50/50 honey and hot water. Subbing for simple syrup gives interesting results in most drinks. Grenadine is also super easy - buy a bottle of POM and mix juice 50:50 with sugar. I like to add a little pomegranate molasses (get at a middle-east specialty market) to kick up the flavor, but not necessary. Re: pineapple. If you are able to press your own pineapple juice you absolutely should, but agree that most people do not have the necessary equipment. Trader Joe’s sells bottles of fresh pressed pineapple juice that is excellent, if you’re fortunate enough to live by one. Otherwise yeah, canned is the way to go.
nycdatasci 1y ago
If the goal is to get drunk, there are lots of cheap ways to do it and it's fine to buy high-fructose-corn-syrup-based "mixers". If you're looking for great cocktails, consider the PDT (Please Don't Tell) book and/or app by Jim Meehan. When his recipes call for lemon juice, you'll be buying and squeezing (do not buy "fresh squeezed lemon juice"). If you want more of a sensory experience, take recipes from the Aviary in Chicago (they also sell a book). Prepare to spend several days preparing each drink.

bryanlarsen 1y ago

> worst value is high end vodka. For mixing, definitely. If you're drinking it straight, the subtle complexity of a good vodka is nice.

miketery 1y ago
You don’t need to spend anything more than kettle one. It’s a super simple lab process it’s not like whiskey which has a lot of complexity.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  Biggest differences I see are between grain and potato based. I love rye base vodka. It has a sutle sweetness and almost oily mouth feel. I go for Sobieski most of the time.
TheBoozyGenius 1y ago
Finally someone who ''Gets It''.
antonvs 1y ago
If it's not 100% pure ethanol, are you even a connoisseur?
Barbing 1y ago
Does this bear out in double-blind tests?
mgaunard 1y ago
People who never had Belvedere or Chopin simply don't know that a vodka shot doesn't have to be a painful experience.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  Vodka for some reason has always made me nauseated and it often did result in vomiting. None of the other alcohols have ever made me nauseated or nor made me puke, not even in high, undiluted amounts. So I realized if I do want to get drunk, I cannot go wrong with whiskey. Maybe there is a vodka that would be different.

crystal_revenge 1y ago

My advice would be: Every cocktail has an unlisted ingredient that makes or breaks the drink - ice water. Shaking or stirring a cocktail doesn’t just make it colder, it dilutes it as well. Getting this right is very often the difference between a good and bad drink. I demonstrated this once when a friend complained that it was so hard to get a good cocktail, especially getting good ingredients. All they had in their kitchen was some gin and some other slightly floral novelty liqueur. I just took a spoon and a glass and stirred them something based on the ratios for a martini and they said it was one of the best cocktails they have had! Balancing chill and dilution, even in more complex drinks, is essential. A good way to experiment is to make batch chilled cocktails in which case you need to explicitly measure out the water you’re adding.

avanai 1y ago
The other magic ingredient is salt. A tiny pinch of salt can balance out sour and bitter flavors in surprising ways, and be otherwise undetectable. I’ve “fixed” a lot of cocktails that way.
- lawik 1y ago
  This reminds me of when a student pub hosted a wedding party. As we got to the dance floor there were drinks on offer. I grabbed a Cuba Libre and essentially went "oh, that's the roughest on I've had, must be cheap cola on truly awful booze". Kept on sipping. Someone else complained. Then another one. We go back to investigate. Bartender has a taste. Grimacing. Like bad and maybe salty? Takes a minute before they track it down. They'd mixed up the salted ice cubes they used to keep champagne cold with the ones they use for drinks. That one was rough. I had politely worked through my drink before we launched the investigation. Good party though and I did get a new drink which tasted fine. I'm sure a tiny pinch can do wonders. Salted cubes, not recommended.
- codyb 1y ago
  A little pinch of salt in the water is recommended for drip coffee as well to add a pop to the flavors and reduce bitterness.
- 1y ago

djoldman 1y ago

I do enjoy Antica. That being said, IMHO sweet vermouths vary a lot. Enough that I'd pick one over another depending on the cocktail.

wrsh07 1y ago
And they taste good/interesting on their own. If you're making drinks at home, try out the ingredients! I rather like a sweet vermouth, and you can feature it strongly in eg a gin and it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and-it https://newsletter.anthonygladman.com/p/all-hail-the-gin-and... Some recipes call for 1:2 ratio, but the 1:1 works well! Give it a try
FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
Punt et Mes is also really good but very different flavor profile. More like the historic flavor of "sweet" vermouth which was actually more bitter.

yojo 1y ago

Antica is very particular, IMO. It’s good, but lots of vanilla flavor, which doesn’t work everywhere. Honestly Martini and Rossi is totally adequate, and I wouldn’t bother stepping up until your palette is dialed in.

jen729w 1y ago
I think anyone could immediately appreciate the difference between a negroni made with Antica vs. Rossi. It's night and day. The Antica lends a far deeper flavour vs. the brash sweetness of the Rossi. The gin, on the other hand: just get the cheapest stuff you can find. Our go-to was Aldi's store brand. Campari, of course, has the middle ingredient all stitched up.
- yojo 1y ago
  I still disagree. The vanilla is just too much in a negroni. I’d rather use Dolin, or the Death & Co 50/50 Dolin/Punt e Mes mix if I think I can get through both bottles before they oxidize. But Martini & Rossi is fine. It does the job well enough to understand the drinks, and you can start trying the pricier stuff once you decide if you even like them. Also, hard disagree on “buy the cheapest gin.” Gordon’s is better than everything else on the bottom shelf at a regular liquor store, but often costs a buck or two more. Way better than Seagrams, or something like New Amsterdam that isn’t even a London Dry. I don’t have an Aldi to compare to. Kirkland Signature is fine if we’re doing store brands. No argument on Campari. That’s just truth.

cpfohl 1y ago

I like to doctor bad sweet vermouths with a barspoon of Cynar. Goes a long way to add the missing complexity, and if you're sparing enough even a Cynar hater won't mind it.

jjice 1y ago

> know when the quality of ingredients matter and when they don’t. Very good point. The first time I had a Gin and Tonic with a fresh squeezed lime half and a good tonic water was mind blowing. I had thought that sour mix was just as good as a fresh lime and that all tonic water was the same, but man I was wrong.