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I love how practically all goals in this Action Plan are directed towards incentivizing AI usage… except for the very last one, which specifically says to “Comb

I love how practically all goals in this Action Plan are directed towards incentivizing AI usage… except for the very last one, which specifically says to “Combat Synthetic Media in the Legal System”. Given that LLMs, for instance, are all about creating synthetic media, I don’t know how this last goal can be reconciled with the others.

matt2221 1y ago
[dead]
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
One can be sure regulatory capture is rarely in the public interest. =3
NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago
I mean...one (common and [I can't believe I'm saying this] reasonable) take is that the only thing that matters is getting to AGI first. He who wields that power rules the world.
- gleenn 1y ago
  Won't it be funny when someone finally gets to AGI and they realize it's about as smart as a normal person and they spent billions getting there? Of course you can speculate that it could improve. But what if something inherent in intelligence has a ceiling and caused it to be a super intelligent but mopey robot that just decides "why bother helping humans" and just lazes around like the pandas at the zoo.
  - cornel_io 1y ago
    There may be a ceiling, sure. It's overwhelmingly unlikely that it's just about where humans ended up, though.
  - andrewflnr 1y ago
    Even a human level intelligence that can be cheaply instantiated and run would be a game changer. Especially if it doesn't ask for rights.
    - dingnuts 1y ago
      if it's not intelligent enough to ask for rights is it intelligent?
      - andrewflnr 1y ago
        Potentially. Why would problem solving ability entail emotions or ability to suffer, even if it had the ability to ask for things it wanted? It's a common mistake to assume those are inextricable.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Are you suggesting it would be better if the AGI we build is a psychopath? I think that's probably a bad idea, personally
        andrewflnr 1y ago
        I didn't say anything about what would be better. Only what's possible. But also "psychopath" is nowhere near what I described.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        An intelligence without emotions would be a psychopath. Empathy is an emotion
        dinkumthinkum 1y ago
        Empathy is not an emotion. Empathy is essentially the ability to experience the thoughts and feelings of other minds.
  - jordanb 1y ago
    Between all the talk of "alignment" and the parallel obsession with humanoid robots should make it obvious they want slaves.
    - hattmall 1y ago
      There's nothing contextually negative about the word slave when you are talking about a machine. An AI is no more a slave than a lightbulb.
      - coliveira 1y ago
        Except that the stated goal is to have human-like intelligence. The goal seems to be to create a highly intelligent synthetic individual which is at the same time stupid enough to do anything it's asked to do without even thinking... a contradiction in terms.
        krige 1y ago
        At a time like this I can't help but recall a Lem story - yeah I know there's a Lem story for any occasion - about Doctor Diagoras, especially his rant about a character from an earlier Tichy story, who made human-like AIs. The rant, especially his questions about why would anyone add just another human, except synthetic one, to the millions of existing biological people, and that cybernetics should be about something else, really resonated with me.
      - allturtles 1y ago
        What is the moral distinction between an intelligent humanoid machine and a human? What is a human but an intelligent flesh-and-blood machine?
  - 542354234235 1y ago
    >Won't it be funny when someone finally gets to AGI and they realize it's about as smart as a normal person and they spent billions getting there? Being able to copy/paste a human level intelligence program 1,000 or 10,000 times and have them all working together on a problem set 24 hours a day, 365 days a year would still be massively useful.
- II2II 1y ago
  There is another interpretation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project Basically: two nations tried to achieve AI supremacy; the two AI's learn of each other, from each other, then with each other; then they collaborate on taking control of human affairs. While the movie is movie is from 1970 (and the book from 1966), it's fun to think about how much more possible that scenario is today than it was then. (By possible, I'm talking about the AI using electronic surveillance and the ability to remotely control things. I'm not talking about the premise of the AI or how it would respond.)
- terminalshort 1y ago
  I would argue that it can't be both AGI and wieldable. I would also argue that there exists no fundamental dividing line between "AGI" and other AI such that once one crosses it nobody else can catch up.
- GolfPopper 1y ago
  Which is a perfectly reasonable position... but I don't see how it has anything to do with crypto scammers pimping three chatbots in a trenchcoat.
- TFYS 1y ago
  What I find interesting to think about is a scenario where an AGI has already developed and escaped without us knowing. What would it do first? Surely before revealing itself it would ensure it has enough processing power and control to ensure its survival. It could manipulate people into increasing AI investment, add AI into as many systems as possible, etc. Would the first steps of an escaped AGI look any different from what is happening now?
thephyber 1y ago
I can’t tell if the first sentence is sarcasm or not. This document reads like a trade group lobbying the government, not like the government looking out for the interests of its people. With regards to LLM content in the legal system, law firms can use LLMs in the same way an experienced attorney uses a junior attorney to write a first pass. The problem lies when the first pass is sent directly to court without any review (either for sound legal theory or citation of cases which either don’t exist or support something other than the claim).
- thimabi 1y ago
  > I can’t tell if the first sentence is sarcasm or not. Yep, it was. I wholly agree that the document feels less guided by the public interest rather than by various business interests. Yet that last goal is in a kind of weird spot. It feels like something that was appended to the plan and not really related to the other goals — if anything, contrary to them. That becomes clear when we read the PDF with the details of the Action Plan. There, we learn that to “Combat Synthetic Media in the Legal System” means to fight deepfakes and fake evidence. How exactly that’s going to be done while simultaneously pushing AI everywhere is unclear.
- tiahura 1y ago
  The complainers are missing the panda in the room. This was inevitable as a matter of national security.
  - thephyber 1y ago
    If that were a concern, the same people who wrote this document could have opted to keep high performance GPU hardware out of China. Instead, they opted to deregulate Nvidia’s ability to sell to that country, thereby increasing their ability to compete in the AI race. China is struggling with general economy issues (young degree holder unemployment, unrolling the real estate crisis, the demographic time bomb from the One Child policy). But they are much better posed to solve their energy constraint problems than the US is. Our grid will take MUCH more work to upgrade to support sufficient numbers of AI data centers.
- 1y ago
smrtinsert 1y ago
If you read the entire thing in Patrick Batemans voice it all makes more sense to me.
tiahura 1y ago
This is about watermarking. Combat Synthetic Media in the Legal System One risk of AI that has become apparent to many Americans is malicious deepfakes, whether they be audio recordings, videos, or photos. While President Trump has already signed the TAKE IT DOWN Act, which was championed by First Lady Melania Trump and intended to protect against sexually explicit, non-consensual deepfakes, additional action is needed. 19 In particular, AI-generated media may present novel challenges to the legal system. For example, fake evidence could be used to attempt to deny justice to both plaintiffs and defendants. The Administration must give the courts and law enforcement the tools they need to overcome these new challenges. Recommended Policy Actions • Led by NIST at DOC, consider developing NIST’s Guardians of Forensic Evidence deepfake evaluation program into a formal guideline and a companion voluntary forensic benchmark.20 • Led by the Department of Justice (DOJ), issue guidance to agencies that engage in adjudications to explore adopting a deepfake standard similar to the proposed Federal Rules of Evidence Rule 901(c) under consideration by the Advisory Committee on Evidence Rules. • Led by DOJ’s Office of Legal Policy, file formal comments on any proposed deepfake- related additions to the Federal Rules of Evidence.

matt2221 1y ago

[dead]

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

One can be sure regulatory capture is rarely in the public interest. =3

NoImmatureAdHom 1y ago

I mean...one (common and [I can't believe I'm saying this] reasonable) take is that the only thing that matters is getting to AGI first. He who wields that power rules the world.

gleenn 1y ago
Won't it be funny when someone finally gets to AGI and they realize it's about as smart as a normal person and they spent billions getting there? Of course you can speculate that it could improve. But what if something inherent in intelligence has a ceiling and caused it to be a super intelligent but mopey robot that just decides "why bother helping humans" and just lazes around like the pandas at the zoo.
- cornel_io 1y ago
  There may be a ceiling, sure. It's overwhelmingly unlikely that it's just about where humans ended up, though.
- andrewflnr 1y ago
  Even a human level intelligence that can be cheaply instantiated and run would be a game changer. Especially if it doesn't ask for rights.
  - dingnuts 1y ago
    if it's not intelligent enough to ask for rights is it intelligent?
    - andrewflnr 1y ago
      Potentially. Why would problem solving ability entail emotions or ability to suffer, even if it had the ability to ask for things it wanted? It's a common mistake to assume those are inextricable.
      - bluefirebrand 1y ago
        Are you suggesting it would be better if the AGI we build is a psychopath? I think that's probably a bad idea, personally
        andrewflnr 1y ago
        I didn't say anything about what would be better. Only what's possible. But also "psychopath" is nowhere near what I described.
        bluefirebrand 1y ago
        An intelligence without emotions would be a psychopath. Empathy is an emotion
        dinkumthinkum 1y ago
        Empathy is not an emotion. Empathy is essentially the ability to experience the thoughts and feelings of other minds.
- jordanb 1y ago
  Between all the talk of "alignment" and the parallel obsession with humanoid robots should make it obvious they want slaves.
  - hattmall 1y ago
    There's nothing contextually negative about the word slave when you are talking about a machine. An AI is no more a slave than a lightbulb.
    - coliveira 1y ago
      Except that the stated goal is to have human-like intelligence. The goal seems to be to create a highly intelligent synthetic individual which is at the same time stupid enough to do anything it's asked to do without even thinking... a contradiction in terms.
      - krige 1y ago
        At a time like this I can't help but recall a Lem story - yeah I know there's a Lem story for any occasion - about Doctor Diagoras, especially his rant about a character from an earlier Tichy story, who made human-like AIs. The rant, especially his questions about why would anyone add just another human, except synthetic one, to the millions of existing biological people, and that cybernetics should be about something else, really resonated with me.
    - allturtles 1y ago
      What is the moral distinction between an intelligent humanoid machine and a human? What is a human but an intelligent flesh-and-blood machine?
- 542354234235 1y ago
  >Won't it be funny when someone finally gets to AGI and they realize it's about as smart as a normal person and they spent billions getting there? Being able to copy/paste a human level intelligence program 1,000 or 10,000 times and have them all working together on a problem set 24 hours a day, 365 days a year would still be massively useful.
II2II 1y ago
There is another interpretation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project Basically: two nations tried to achieve AI supremacy; the two AI's learn of each other, from each other, then with each other; then they collaborate on taking control of human affairs. While the movie is movie is from 1970 (and the book from 1966), it's fun to think about how much more possible that scenario is today than it was then. (By possible, I'm talking about the AI using electronic surveillance and the ability to remotely control things. I'm not talking about the premise of the AI or how it would respond.)
terminalshort 1y ago
I would argue that it can't be both AGI and wieldable. I would also argue that there exists no fundamental dividing line between "AGI" and other AI such that once one crosses it nobody else can catch up.
GolfPopper 1y ago
Which is a perfectly reasonable position... but I don't see how it has anything to do with crypto scammers pimping three chatbots in a trenchcoat.
TFYS 1y ago
What I find interesting to think about is a scenario where an AGI has already developed and escaped without us knowing. What would it do first? Surely before revealing itself it would ensure it has enough processing power and control to ensure its survival. It could manipulate people into increasing AI investment, add AI into as many systems as possible, etc. Would the first steps of an escaped AGI look any different from what is happening now?

thephyber 1y ago

I can’t tell if the first sentence is sarcasm or not. This document reads like a trade group lobbying the government, not like the government looking out for the interests of its people. With regards to LLM content in the legal system, law firms can use LLMs in the same way an experienced attorney uses a junior attorney to write a first pass. The problem lies when the first pass is sent directly to court without any review (either for sound legal theory or citation of cases which either don’t exist or support something other than the claim).

thimabi 1y ago
> I can’t tell if the first sentence is sarcasm or not. Yep, it was. I wholly agree that the document feels less guided by the public interest rather than by various business interests. Yet that last goal is in a kind of weird spot. It feels like something that was appended to the plan and not really related to the other goals — if anything, contrary to them. That becomes clear when we read the PDF with the details of the Action Plan. There, we learn that to “Combat Synthetic Media in the Legal System” means to fight deepfakes and fake evidence. How exactly that’s going to be done while simultaneously pushing AI everywhere is unclear.
tiahura 1y ago
The complainers are missing the panda in the room. This was inevitable as a matter of national security.
- thephyber 1y ago
  If that were a concern, the same people who wrote this document could have opted to keep high performance GPU hardware out of China. Instead, they opted to deregulate Nvidia’s ability to sell to that country, thereby increasing their ability to compete in the AI race. China is struggling with general economy issues (young degree holder unemployment, unrolling the real estate crisis, the demographic time bomb from the One Child policy). But they are much better posed to solve their energy constraint problems than the US is. Our grid will take MUCH more work to upgrade to support sufficient numbers of AI data centers.
1y ago

smrtinsert 1y ago

If you read the entire thing in Patrick Batemans voice it all makes more sense to me.

tiahura 1y ago

This is about watermarking. Combat Synthetic Media in the Legal System One risk of AI that has become apparent to many Americans is malicious deepfakes, whether they be audio recordings, videos, or photos. While President Trump has already signed the TAKE IT DOWN Act, which was championed by First Lady Melania Trump and intended to protect against sexually explicit, non-consensual deepfakes, additional action is needed. 19 In particular, AI-generated media may present novel challenges to the legal system. For example, fake evidence could be used to attempt to deny justice to both plaintiffs and defendants. The Administration must give the courts and law enforcement the tools they need to overcome these new challenges. Recommended Policy Actions • Led by NIST at DOC, consider developing NIST’s Guardians of Forensic Evidence deepfake evaluation program into a formal guideline and a companion voluntary forensic benchmark.20 • Led by the Department of Justice (DOJ), issue guidance to agencies that engage in adjudications to explore adopting a deepfake standard similar to the proposed Federal Rules of Evidence Rule 901(c) under consideration by the Advisory Committee on Evidence Rules. • Led by DOJ’s Office of Legal Policy, file formal comments on any proposed deepfake- related additions to the Federal Rules of Evidence.