4 ms·

Thank god you can enable and disable each of these components in complete isolation, so you don't suffer any kind of lock-in from systemd.

LooseMarmoset 1y ago
devuan saved just enough of my sanity for me to function
- chrsw 1y ago
  Yes! I'm hoping for another Devuan release after this.
- spookie 1y ago
  Yeah, pretty incredible distro. Some rough edges here and there but man, even maintenance is a dream. It's just plain simpler to diagnose, and actually control what the system does. Instead of having to go down abstraction hell land. Don't get me wrong, systemd is cool. But my god people really abuse of it. Especially distros. Some really make it hard to understand what service is in actual control. Why wrap daemons in daemons in daemons? With the worst possible names and descriptions to boot.
dijit 1y ago
fighting your distro in practice is a total nightmare.
- yehoshuapw 1y ago
  I ended up in gentoo mostly just to avoid systemd (used it before, mostly to learn. went to debian for new laptop. gave up after fighting systemd. I'm aware of devuan and artix, but gentoo just worked (after all the time spent))
  - b112 1y ago
    Debian, at least until bookworm works perfectly without systemd. The easiest way to make this transition, is to installed Debian with nothing but 'standard system utilities' and 'SSH server' (if you want) during install: https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774f25bc92098cb84c7de406faf25e65c6b227b.png https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774... Once install is done, login and save this file: /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # this is the only systemd package that is required, so we up its priority first... Package: libsystemd0 Pin: release bookworm Pin-Priority: 700 /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # exclude the rest Package: systemd Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: *systemd* Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:i386 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:amd64 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 After: apt-get install sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils Reboot then: apt-get purge systemd There are a few edge cases, packages which require systemd, but I've been running thousands of systems including desktops this way for a decade. Yes, I also run thousands of systems with systemd too.
    - JdeBP 1y ago
      It's important to remember that it has to be this aggressive in excluding systemd, too. There is quite a lot of strong coupling amongst the parts of systemd, so there are very few half-measure scenarios, where one can have only some systemd stuff, that will actually function correctly in toto. Moreover, there are the odd one or two unrelated packages that just happen to have the string "systemd" in their names. (-:
    - spookie 1y ago
      Have you looked at Devuan? Genuinely a good experience.
    - tremon 1y ago
      Note that this will still allow systemd-udevd because it's packaged under its original name, udev.
      - LooseMarmoset 1y ago
        yeah. you need eudev instead. still, I appreciate the guide!
  - tpoindex 1y ago
    MX Linux for the win. Debian based, but defaults to 'init'. Booting with systemd is an option. Just enough systemd-* running to make things easy and seamless. $ ps agxf|grep 'systemd' 607 ? S 0:00 /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd 2201 ? S 0:00 /sbin/cgmanager --daemon -m name=systemd 2726 ? S 0:00 /lib/systemd/systemd-logind Also can install Nvidia or AMD video drivers.
- beagle3 1y ago
  I’ve been dropping systemd-timesyncd and using chrome since forever, and it works well. I’m sure some systemd-* things are harder to replace, but not every replacement is a fight against your distro.
- pavon 1y ago
  I've not had any problems with swapping out systemd-* with other packages, including -coredump, -cron, -oomd, -resolved or -timesyncd. Even journald was fairly painless to swap out. Unlike systemd itself, the distros' approach them not so much as a core part of the userland, but as lightweight basic implementations that meet many user's needs, but which are in no way a replacement for more fully-functional implementations.
  - dijit 1y ago
    it’s not possible to swap out journald.
- spookie 1y ago
  There are reasonable ones out there. Just use a well maintained one that aligns with you.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

LooseMarmoset 1y ago

devuan saved just enough of my sanity for me to function

chrsw 1y ago
Yes! I'm hoping for another Devuan release after this.
spookie 1y ago
Yeah, pretty incredible distro. Some rough edges here and there but man, even maintenance is a dream. It's just plain simpler to diagnose, and actually control what the system does. Instead of having to go down abstraction hell land. Don't get me wrong, systemd is cool. But my god people really abuse of it. Especially distros. Some really make it hard to understand what service is in actual control. Why wrap daemons in daemons in daemons? With the worst possible names and descriptions to boot.

dijit 1y ago

fighting your distro in practice is a total nightmare.

yehoshuapw 1y ago
I ended up in gentoo mostly just to avoid systemd (used it before, mostly to learn. went to debian for new laptop. gave up after fighting systemd. I'm aware of devuan and artix, but gentoo just worked (after all the time spent))
- b112 1y ago
  Debian, at least until bookworm works perfectly without systemd. The easiest way to make this transition, is to installed Debian with nothing but 'standard system utilities' and 'SSH server' (if you want) during install: https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774f25bc92098cb84c7de406faf25e65c6b227b.png https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774... Once install is done, login and save this file: /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # this is the only systemd package that is required, so we up its priority first... Package: libsystemd0 Pin: release bookworm Pin-Priority: 700 /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # exclude the rest Package: systemd Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: *systemd* Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:i386 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:amd64 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 After: apt-get install sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils Reboot then: apt-get purge systemd There are a few edge cases, packages which require systemd, but I've been running thousands of systems including desktops this way for a decade. Yes, I also run thousands of systems with systemd too.
  - JdeBP 1y ago
    It's important to remember that it has to be this aggressive in excluding systemd, too. There is quite a lot of strong coupling amongst the parts of systemd, so there are very few half-measure scenarios, where one can have only some systemd stuff, that will actually function correctly in toto. Moreover, there are the odd one or two unrelated packages that just happen to have the string "systemd" in their names. (-:
  - spookie 1y ago
    Have you looked at Devuan? Genuinely a good experience.
  - tremon 1y ago
    Note that this will still allow systemd-udevd because it's packaged under its original name, udev.
    - LooseMarmoset 1y ago
      yeah. you need eudev instead. still, I appreciate the guide!
- tpoindex 1y ago
  MX Linux for the win. Debian based, but defaults to 'init'. Booting with systemd is an option. Just enough systemd-* running to make things easy and seamless. $ ps agxf|grep 'systemd' 607 ? S 0:00 /lib/systemd/systemd-udevd 2201 ? S 0:00 /sbin/cgmanager --daemon -m name=systemd 2726 ? S 0:00 /lib/systemd/systemd-logind Also can install Nvidia or AMD video drivers.
beagle3 1y ago
I’ve been dropping systemd-timesyncd and using chrome since forever, and it works well. I’m sure some systemd-* things are harder to replace, but not every replacement is a fight against your distro.
pavon 1y ago
I've not had any problems with swapping out systemd-* with other packages, including -coredump, -cron, -oomd, -resolved or -timesyncd. Even journald was fairly painless to swap out. Unlike systemd itself, the distros' approach them not so much as a core part of the userland, but as lightweight basic implementations that meet many user's needs, but which are in no way a replacement for more fully-functional implementations.
- dijit 1y ago
  it’s not possible to swap out journald.
spookie 1y ago
There are reasonable ones out there. Just use a well maintained one that aligns with you.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]