3 ms·

"modern passport not existing in past" ≠ "free human movement" borders have largely had guards, who had no obligation to let people through, or even to treat t

"modern passport not existing in past" ≠ "free human movement" borders have largely had guards, who had no obligation to let people through, or even to treat them fairly and not rob them. frontiers had bandits who existed solely to prey on travelers. even if you could move to a different settlement, you did not have the same legal rights as citizens of that city. the "modern passport" has done more for free human movement than anything that came before.

csomar 1y ago
Cities had guards. There was no border pre-1900 because there was no tech to enforce it. If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates.
- Alupis 1y ago
  Pre-1900? Are you aware of how many wars were fought around the world just in the 1800's regarding border and territory disputes?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Insanely misinformed. What kind of tech do you imagine is needed? Have you heard of Hadrian's Wall? The Great Wall of China? Or more generally: forts, outposts, coastal batteries, scouts, patrols?
  - joecool1029 1y ago
    Do you think they will be shocked to find out color wasn't invented in the 1900's?
    - bigfishrunning 1y ago
      It has always existed in the merry old land of Oz.
  - 9rx 1y ago
    > What kind of tech do you imagine is needed? Agriculture, at very least. Before we created that tech you'd be way too busy trying to find something to eat to have time to stand around defending artificial borders. 1900 BCE mightn't be perfectly accurate, but close enough for a stupid comment on the internet.
    - codetrotter 1y ago
      > 1900 BCE Nothing in the comment that we are talking about indicates that "pre-1900" is referring to 1900 BCE. It sounds squarely like it's referring to 1900 AD to me. Which is why people are saying it's ridiculous.
      - 9rx 1y ago
        > It sounds squarely like it's referring to 1900 AD to me. What part of "If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates." suggests 1900 CE to you? Have you never looked at a history book?
        codetrotter 1y ago
        There was plenty of pirates around still in the 1800s AD. Aka "pre-1900" AD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy
        9rx 1y ago
        There are still plenty of pirates around to this very day; a "significant issue" according to your own link. Despite that, the aforementioned statement doesn't make me think it has anything to do with today. What, specifically, makes you think it has something to do with the time leading up to 1900 CE rather than 1900 BCE?
        codetrotter 1y ago
        > What, specifically, makes you think it has something to do with the time leading up to 1900 CE rather than 1900 BCE Normally when someone says "1900" they are referring to 1900 AD. Unless BCE had already been mentioned, which here it had not. And if they were referring to 1900 BCE they normally would specifically say 1900 BCE. That's why. And furthermore, the parent comment above the one talking about "pre-1900" was talking about modern passports. Why would anyone immediately jump from modern passports to 1900 BCE? That don't make no sense at all. Jumping to 1900 AD however, that does make sense. You see?

csomar 1y ago

Cities had guards. There was no border pre-1900 because there was no tech to enforce it. If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates.

Alupis 1y ago
Pre-1900? Are you aware of how many wars were fought around the world just in the 1800's regarding border and territory disputes?
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Insanely misinformed. What kind of tech do you imagine is needed? Have you heard of Hadrian's Wall? The Great Wall of China? Or more generally: forts, outposts, coastal batteries, scouts, patrols?
- joecool1029 1y ago
  Do you think they will be shocked to find out color wasn't invented in the 1900's?
  - bigfishrunning 1y ago
    It has always existed in the merry old land of Oz.
- 9rx 1y ago
  > What kind of tech do you imagine is needed? Agriculture, at very least. Before we created that tech you'd be way too busy trying to find something to eat to have time to stand around defending artificial borders. 1900 BCE mightn't be perfectly accurate, but close enough for a stupid comment on the internet.
  - codetrotter 1y ago
    > 1900 BCE Nothing in the comment that we are talking about indicates that "pre-1900" is referring to 1900 BCE. It sounds squarely like it's referring to 1900 AD to me. Which is why people are saying it's ridiculous.
    - 9rx 1y ago
      > It sounds squarely like it's referring to 1900 AD to me. What part of "If you moved from one place to another, you were mostly at the whims of thieves and pirates." suggests 1900 CE to you? Have you never looked at a history book?
      - codetrotter 1y ago
        There was plenty of pirates around still in the 1800s AD. Aka "pre-1900" AD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy
        9rx 1y ago
        There are still plenty of pirates around to this very day; a "significant issue" according to your own link. Despite that, the aforementioned statement doesn't make me think it has anything to do with today. What, specifically, makes you think it has something to do with the time leading up to 1900 CE rather than 1900 BCE?
        codetrotter 1y ago
        > What, specifically, makes you think it has something to do with the time leading up to 1900 CE rather than 1900 BCE Normally when someone says "1900" they are referring to 1900 AD. Unless BCE had already been mentioned, which here it had not. And if they were referring to 1900 BCE they normally would specifically say 1900 BCE. That's why. And furthermore, the parent comment above the one talking about "pre-1900" was talking about modern passports. Why would anyone immediately jump from modern passports to 1900 BCE? That don't make no sense at all. Jumping to 1900 AD however, that does make sense. You see?