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systemd-resolved is an effing nightmare when combined with network-manager. these two packages consistently manage to stomp all over DNS resolution in their has

systemd-resolved is an effing nightmare when combined with network-manager. these two packages consistently manage to stomp all over DNS resolution in their haste to be the one true source of name resolution. i tried enabling systemd-resolved as part of an effort to do dns over https and i end up with zero dns. i swear that /etc/resolv.conf plus helper scripts is more consistent and easy.

wpm 1y ago
It’s why I always say in the typical “systemd bad” threads that systemd the init system is great, it’s the systemd-* everything else’s that give it a bad name. I want systemd nowhere fucking near my NTP or DNS config.
- blueflow 1y ago
  Thank god you can enable and disable each of these components in complete isolation, so you don't suffer any kind of lock-in from systemd.
  - LooseMarmoset 1y ago
    devuan saved just enough of my sanity for me to function
    - chrsw 1y ago
      Yes! I'm hoping for another Devuan release after this.
    - spookie 1y ago
      Yeah, pretty incredible distro. Some rough edges here and there but man, even maintenance is a dream. It's just plain simpler to diagnose, and actually control what the system does. Instead of having to go down abstraction hell land. Don't get me wrong, systemd is cool. But my god people really abuse of it. Especially distros. Some really make it hard to understand what service is in actual control. Why wrap daemons in daemons in daemons? With the worst possible names and descriptions to boot.
  - dijit 1y ago
    fighting your distro in practice is a total nightmare.
    - yehoshuapw 1y ago
      I ended up in gentoo mostly just to avoid systemd (used it before, mostly to learn. went to debian for new laptop. gave up after fighting systemd. I'm aware of devuan and artix, but gentoo just worked (after all the time spent))
      - b112 1y ago
        Debian, at least until bookworm works perfectly without systemd. The easiest way to make this transition, is to installed Debian with nothing but 'standard system utilities' and 'SSH server' (if you want) during install: https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774f25bc92098cb84c7de406faf25e65c6b227b.png https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774... Once install is done, login and save this file: /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # this is the only systemd package that is required, so we up its priority first... Package: libsystemd0 Pin: release bookworm Pin-Priority: 700 /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # exclude the rest Package: systemd Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: *systemd* Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:i386 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:amd64 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 After: apt-get install sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils Reboot then: apt-get purge systemd There are a few edge cases, packages which require systemd, but I've been running thousands of systems including desktops this way for a decade. Yes, I also run thousands of systems with systemd too.
        JdeBP 1y ago
        It's important to remember that it has to be this aggressive in excluding systemd, too. There is quite a lot of strong coupling amongst the parts of systemd, so there are very few half-measure scenarios, where one can have only some systemd stuff, that will actually function correctly in toto. Moreover, there are the odd one or two unrelated packages that just happen to have the string "systemd" in their names. (-:
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
RVuRnvbM2e 1y ago
I've been using this combination successfully for a long time with no issues. In fact it is the only way to handle complex DNS setup on Linux. If you have specific issues, please file them over at systemds GitHub issue tracker.
tremon 1y ago
chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf It's the only long-term solution to that problem that I endorse. Every attempt of working with the system, whether via systemd.network, resolved.conf or resolvconf, has always eventually bit me one way or another.

wpm 1y ago

It’s why I always say in the typical “systemd bad” threads that systemd the init system is great, it’s the systemd-* everything else’s that give it a bad name. I want systemd nowhere fucking near my NTP or DNS config.

blueflow 1y ago
Thank god you can enable and disable each of these components in complete isolation, so you don't suffer any kind of lock-in from systemd.
- LooseMarmoset 1y ago
  devuan saved just enough of my sanity for me to function
  - chrsw 1y ago
    Yes! I'm hoping for another Devuan release after this.
  - spookie 1y ago
    Yeah, pretty incredible distro. Some rough edges here and there but man, even maintenance is a dream. It's just plain simpler to diagnose, and actually control what the system does. Instead of having to go down abstraction hell land. Don't get me wrong, systemd is cool. But my god people really abuse of it. Especially distros. Some really make it hard to understand what service is in actual control. Why wrap daemons in daemons in daemons? With the worst possible names and descriptions to boot.
- dijit 1y ago
  fighting your distro in practice is a total nightmare.
  - yehoshuapw 1y ago
    I ended up in gentoo mostly just to avoid systemd (used it before, mostly to learn. went to debian for new laptop. gave up after fighting systemd. I'm aware of devuan and artix, but gentoo just worked (after all the time spent))
    - b112 1y ago
      Debian, at least until bookworm works perfectly without systemd. The easiest way to make this transition, is to installed Debian with nothing but 'standard system utilities' and 'SSH server' (if you want) during install: https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774f25bc92098cb84c7de406faf25e65c6b227b.png https://forum.qubes-os.org/uploads/db3820/original/2X/c/c774... Once install is done, login and save this file: /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # this is the only systemd package that is required, so we up its priority first... Package: libsystemd0 Pin: release bookworm Pin-Priority: 700 /etc/apt/preferences.d/systemd # exclude the rest Package: systemd Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: *systemd* Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:i386 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 Package: systemd:amd64 Pin: release * Pin-Priority: -1 After: apt-get install sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils Reboot then: apt-get purge systemd There are a few edge cases, packages which require systemd, but I've been running thousands of systems including desktops this way for a decade. Yes, I also run thousands of systems with systemd too.
      - JdeBP 1y ago
        It's important to remember that it has to be this aggressive in excluding systemd, too. There is quite a lot of strong coupling amongst the parts of systemd, so there are very few half-measure scenarios, where one can have only some systemd stuff, that will actually function correctly in toto. Moreover, there are the odd one or two unrelated packages that just happen to have the string "systemd" in their names. (-:
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

RVuRnvbM2e 1y ago

I've been using this combination successfully for a long time with no issues. In fact it is the only way to handle complex DNS setup on Linux. If you have specific issues, please file them over at systemds GitHub issue tracker.

tremon 1y ago

chattr +i /etc/resolv.conf It's the only long-term solution to that problem that I endorse. Every attempt of working with the system, whether via systemd.network, resolved.conf or resolvconf, has always eventually bit me one way or another.