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> It's a genocide, not a terrorist attack. It’s neither. There is a word for it in a dictionary: war.

immibis 1y ago
An operation by a state to purge itself of an ethnic group? If that's a war, perhaps it's a civil war? But a civil war implies both sides having a similar ability level. And a war in the year 2025 normally implies mainly hitting military targets - the enemy's civilians are to be subjugated, not killed.
- reliabilityguy 1y ago
  > An operation by a state to purge itself of an ethnic group? Palestinians do not live in Israel. So, Israel is not purging “itself”. If you claim that Israel wants to remove all the Arabs, then why it does not wage war on its own Arab citizens? > But a civil war implies both sides having a similar ability level. What? It makes no sense. In Lebanese civil war you had at least 4 sides, and they were vastly different in their abilities. Civil war implies that everyone involved is a citizen, which is not the case here. > And a war in the year 2025 normally implies mainly hitting military targets - the enemy's civilians are to be subjugated, not killed. In any war civilians die, especially if the war involves guerrillas. Look at Myanmar: civil war, guerrilla groups, a lot of dead civilians.
  - test098 1y ago
    Israel is purging the land it wants to take, which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land, whose citizens are restricted by the Israeli military, socially and economically. Yeah, civilians die. But Israel targets civilians, not combatants.
    - reliabilityguy 1y ago
      > Israel is purging the land it wants to take, which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land Israel left Gaza in 2005. Why leave the land “ which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land”? > Yeah, civilians die. But Israel targets civilians, not combatants. You would have to prove that. So far, if targeting civilians was the goal, then Israel why send ground forces into Gaza in the first place? It makes no sense.
  - immibis 1y ago
    Israel says that Palestine doesn't exist and that land is part of Israel.
    - reliabilityguy 1y ago
      > Israel says that Palestine doesn't exist and that land is part of Israel. Israel is not a person, and cannot “say” things. At least 20% of Israelis are Arabs, I doubt that they also “saying” that. Politicians come and go, opinions change. Regardless, if you like to participate in a proper discourse, I’m all ears. However, so far it seems that your arguments are more emotional rather than factual.
      - immibis 1y ago
        David Ben Avraham is a converted Jewish Israeli who grew up in Palestine. He was stopped arbitrarily by an IDF soldier, who asked his name, and then immediately shot him dead. I bring this up because I'm tired of hearing "some Israelis are Arabs" as if to blame the Arabs for not becoming Israelis. There's a reason they don't.
        reliabilityguy 1y ago
        I am confused here. What are you trying to say?
        LightBug1 1y ago
        Wankers like you often are.
ToucanLoucan 1y ago
A war can itself contain a genocide, and one would argue that's the norm. Most genocides occurred during wars, a notable exception being the Myanmar one. Israel has made it clear that the existence of Palestinians in Palestine is what they are fighting against. That's a genocide by every definition I've ever seen, and several people high in Israel's government are quite open about that fact, too.
- reliabilityguy 1y ago
  > A war can itself contain a genocide, and one would argue that's the norm. Nonsense. Plenty of wars have no genocide component at all. For example, Russia vs Georgia in 2008. > Israel has made it clear that the existence of Palestinians in Palestine is what they are fighting against. This is new. If this is the goal, then why leave Gaza in 2005 in the first place? > That's a genocide by every definition I've ever seen Palestinians also claim that want all the land to themselves. Are they committing genocide too? Genocide has very specific definition, and it’s different from yours. > several people high in Israel's government are quite open about that fact, too Politicians? Politicians talk all the time, so? If every claim made by politicians became reality, we all would live in a perfect world, and all the problems would be solved (I mean, that is what always promised before the elections).
  - ToucanLoucan 1y ago
    > Nonsense. Plenty of wars have no genocide component at all. It's the norm that a genocides occur during wars. Are you going to be this obtuse through this whole comment? > This is new. If this is the goal, then why leave Gaza in 2005 in the first place? I don't pretend to understand the political calculations done by mass murderers, aspirant or otherwise. That said it's no secret that there's been a surge in right-wing politics all over the world. Perhaps 2024 was more amenable in the minds of those in charge than 2005 was. I don't know and am not particularly interested. > Palestinians also claim that want all the land to themselves. Are they committing genocide too? The Palestinians who live in Palestine and want to remain living and in Palestine? Those Palestinians? No they are not committing a genocide. > Genocide has very specific definition, and it’s different from yours. From the UN: https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition > Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Think you could argue a solid case for all five. Certainly the first three. > Politicians? Politicians talk all the time, so? I mean there's also the bombed hospitals and piles of dead kids, the words of the IDF on the ground, rampant social media posts from Israeli's, if you don't strictly want to go by the words of Israel's leaders, the definition provided by the UN, the definition in common understanding... Like, to be clear, whether you want to call it a genocide or simply an international power abusing it's close ties to the West to obliterate a neighbor with the express purpose of colonizing their land, I think that's pretty fucking bad too, and am equally opposed to it.

An operation by a state to purge itself of an ethnic group? If that's a war, perhaps it's a civil war? But a civil war implies both sides having a similar ability level. And a war in the year 2025 normally implies mainly hitting military targets - the enemy's civilians are to be subjugated, not killed.

reliabilityguy 1y ago
> An operation by a state to purge itself of an ethnic group? Palestinians do not live in Israel. So, Israel is not purging “itself”. If you claim that Israel wants to remove all the Arabs, then why it does not wage war on its own Arab citizens? > But a civil war implies both sides having a similar ability level. What? It makes no sense. In Lebanese civil war you had at least 4 sides, and they were vastly different in their abilities. Civil war implies that everyone involved is a citizen, which is not the case here. > And a war in the year 2025 normally implies mainly hitting military targets - the enemy's civilians are to be subjugated, not killed. In any war civilians die, especially if the war involves guerrillas. Look at Myanmar: civil war, guerrilla groups, a lot of dead civilians.
- test098 1y ago
  Israel is purging the land it wants to take, which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land, whose citizens are restricted by the Israeli military, socially and economically. Yeah, civilians die. But Israel targets civilians, not combatants.
  - reliabilityguy 1y ago
    > Israel is purging the land it wants to take, which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land Israel left Gaza in 2005. Why leave the land “ which is contained within the "borders" of what Israel considers its own land”? > Yeah, civilians die. But Israel targets civilians, not combatants. You would have to prove that. So far, if targeting civilians was the goal, then Israel why send ground forces into Gaza in the first place? It makes no sense.
- immibis 1y ago
  Israel says that Palestine doesn't exist and that land is part of Israel.
  - reliabilityguy 1y ago
    > Israel says that Palestine doesn't exist and that land is part of Israel. Israel is not a person, and cannot “say” things. At least 20% of Israelis are Arabs, I doubt that they also “saying” that. Politicians come and go, opinions change. Regardless, if you like to participate in a proper discourse, I’m all ears. However, so far it seems that your arguments are more emotional rather than factual.
    - immibis 1y ago
      David Ben Avraham is a converted Jewish Israeli who grew up in Palestine. He was stopped arbitrarily by an IDF soldier, who asked his name, and then immediately shot him dead. I bring this up because I'm tired of hearing "some Israelis are Arabs" as if to blame the Arabs for not becoming Israelis. There's a reason they don't.
      - reliabilityguy 1y ago
        I am confused here. What are you trying to say?
        LightBug1 1y ago
        Wankers like you often are.

ToucanLoucan 1y ago

A war can itself contain a genocide, and one would argue that's the norm. Most genocides occurred during wars, a notable exception being the Myanmar one. Israel has made it clear that the existence of Palestinians in Palestine is what they are fighting against. That's a genocide by every definition I've ever seen, and several people high in Israel's government are quite open about that fact, too.

reliabilityguy 1y ago
> A war can itself contain a genocide, and one would argue that's the norm. Nonsense. Plenty of wars have no genocide component at all. For example, Russia vs Georgia in 2008. > Israel has made it clear that the existence of Palestinians in Palestine is what they are fighting against. This is new. If this is the goal, then why leave Gaza in 2005 in the first place? > That's a genocide by every definition I've ever seen Palestinians also claim that want all the land to themselves. Are they committing genocide too? Genocide has very specific definition, and it’s different from yours. > several people high in Israel's government are quite open about that fact, too Politicians? Politicians talk all the time, so? If every claim made by politicians became reality, we all would live in a perfect world, and all the problems would be solved (I mean, that is what always promised before the elections).
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  > Nonsense. Plenty of wars have no genocide component at all. It's the norm that a genocides occur during wars. Are you going to be this obtuse through this whole comment? > This is new. If this is the goal, then why leave Gaza in 2005 in the first place? I don't pretend to understand the political calculations done by mass murderers, aspirant or otherwise. That said it's no secret that there's been a surge in right-wing politics all over the world. Perhaps 2024 was more amenable in the minds of those in charge than 2005 was. I don't know and am not particularly interested. > Palestinians also claim that want all the land to themselves. Are they committing genocide too? The Palestinians who live in Palestine and want to remain living and in Palestine? Those Palestinians? No they are not committing a genocide. > Genocide has very specific definition, and it’s different from yours. From the UN: https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition > Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Think you could argue a solid case for all five. Certainly the first three. > Politicians? Politicians talk all the time, so? I mean there's also the bombed hospitals and piles of dead kids, the words of the IDF on the ground, rampant social media posts from Israeli's, if you don't strictly want to go by the words of Israel's leaders, the definition provided by the UN, the definition in common understanding... Like, to be clear, whether you want to call it a genocide or simply an international power abusing it's close ties to the West to obliterate a neighbor with the express purpose of colonizing their land, I think that's pretty fucking bad too, and am equally opposed to it.