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Get back to me after you've run a business of your own. Not a hobby: A self-supporting corporation which provides your full livelihood. Let me know then how

Get back to me after you've run a business of your own. Not a hobby: A self-supporting corporation which provides your full livelihood. Let me know then how well you'd do as an employee working for someone else, and if you'd be eager to hire on staff with the same "starting a company on-the-side" mindset.

ryanwaggoner 18y ago
I've been self-employed for the last 18 months and I regularly hire contract people to do work for me. Additionally, I own several real estate properties for which I employ a manager and regularly contract people to perform services for me. I pay them to get their jobs done, they do, and I could care less what they do with their own time. I have no problem hiring someone who is going to start something with their own time, as long as they do the job I hire them to do. Back when I was an employee, I was always pursuing ventures on the side, and without exception, my employers were supportive and sad to see me go when I left, for the simple reason that I did my job. You don't own your employees.
- tom_rath 18y ago
  You're paying temporary contractors, not retaining permanent employees. There's a big difference.
  - ryanwaggoner 18y ago
    Is there? What exactly is the difference?
    - tom_rath 18y ago
      A contractor's business is based upon providing the best possible service to their clients. If you retain a contractor, you're one of their clients and any improvements they make to their business benefits you. If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind and their work's focus will change accordingly.
      - ryanwaggoner 18y ago
        If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind... Ah...I see. You're looking for employees whose primary interest is enriching your life, not what's in it for them. Good luck with that.
      - mightybyte 18y ago
        Hmmm, I missed the clause in the employment contract that said "every life decision I make must be in the best interest of The Company".
      - Tamerlin 18y ago
        That's a pretty broad generalization. I'm actually working on building a business on the side of my work, but I do my job. I focus on my own thing when I'm not at work. I also get my work done, and take time to test it. There will in theory come a time when my side efforts will require effort enough to get in the way of my regular job, which is in fact the goal, but I have the integrity to face that -- and when I reach that stage, I'll leave the regular job. If you're running a small business where everyone working for you has to put in 80-hour weeks in order to keep up with their work, then the fault is yours for your poor management -- though to be honest, I'd never consider working for you just because of your attitude toward your ownership of me. Get it straight: you don't own your employees, period. What they do when they're on the clock is your business. Everything else is not. If you can't get that through your head, you shouldn't be attempting to run a business that requires employees. That's not an opinion, it's actually law -- don't forget, we abolished slavery.
      - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
        If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind and their work's focus will change accordingly. Fuck. That. Shit. Everyone is a contractor. There is no loyalty on either side of the employer-employee relationship. It is a hurtful delusion to harbor fantasies otherwise. Judge an employee on their performance. Nothing more, nothing less. What happens off the clock is none of your business. Literally.
        18y ago
- Tamerlin 18y ago
  "I pay them to get their jobs done, they do, and I could care less what they do with their own time." That's one of the best answers yet. Anything else is entirely unacceptable. (And reminds me of amazon, worst place I've ever worked.) If they're getting their work done, then you as an employer have no right to complain about what they're doing with their own time and equipment, end of story. Stealing IP is a different issue altogether, of course -- and that's never acceptable. However... the main reason that I pursue side projects is that my work fails to offer an intellectual challenge for me. I get my job done, and then hunt for intellectual exercise in order to keep my brain in shape. Unfortunately, I rarely find that at work.

ryanwaggoner 18y ago

I've been self-employed for the last 18 months and I regularly hire contract people to do work for me. Additionally, I own several real estate properties for which I employ a manager and regularly contract people to perform services for me. I pay them to get their jobs done, they do, and I could care less what they do with their own time. I have no problem hiring someone who is going to start something with their own time, as long as they do the job I hire them to do. Back when I was an employee, I was always pursuing ventures on the side, and without exception, my employers were supportive and sad to see me go when I left, for the simple reason that I did my job. You don't own your employees.

tom_rath 18y ago
You're paying temporary contractors, not retaining permanent employees. There's a big difference.
- ryanwaggoner 18y ago
  Is there? What exactly is the difference?
  - tom_rath 18y ago
    A contractor's business is based upon providing the best possible service to their clients. If you retain a contractor, you're one of their clients and any improvements they make to their business benefits you. If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind and their work's focus will change accordingly.
    - ryanwaggoner 18y ago
      If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind... Ah...I see. You're looking for employees whose primary interest is enriching your life, not what's in it for them. Good luck with that.
    - mightybyte 18y ago
      Hmmm, I missed the clause in the employment contract that said "every life decision I make must be in the best interest of The Company".
    - Tamerlin 18y ago
      That's a pretty broad generalization. I'm actually working on building a business on the side of my work, but I do my job. I focus on my own thing when I'm not at work. I also get my work done, and take time to test it. There will in theory come a time when my side efforts will require effort enough to get in the way of my regular job, which is in fact the goal, but I have the integrity to face that -- and when I reach that stage, I'll leave the regular job. If you're running a small business where everyone working for you has to put in 80-hour weeks in order to keep up with their work, then the fault is yours for your poor management -- though to be honest, I'd never consider working for you just because of your attitude toward your ownership of me. Get it straight: you don't own your employees, period. What they do when they're on the clock is your business. Everything else is not. If you can't get that through your head, you shouldn't be attempting to run a business that requires employees. That's not an opinion, it's actually law -- don't forget, we abolished slavery.
    - LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
      If an employee on your payroll starts a business, they're not doing so with your best interest in mind and their work's focus will change accordingly. Fuck. That. Shit. Everyone is a contractor. There is no loyalty on either side of the employer-employee relationship. It is a hurtful delusion to harbor fantasies otherwise. Judge an employee on their performance. Nothing more, nothing less. What happens off the clock is none of your business. Literally.
      - 18y ago
Tamerlin 18y ago
"I pay them to get their jobs done, they do, and I could care less what they do with their own time." That's one of the best answers yet. Anything else is entirely unacceptable. (And reminds me of amazon, worst place I've ever worked.) If they're getting their work done, then you as an employer have no right to complain about what they're doing with their own time and equipment, end of story. Stealing IP is a different issue altogether, of course -- and that's never acceptable. However... the main reason that I pursue side projects is that my work fails to offer an intellectual challenge for me. I get my job done, and then hunt for intellectual exercise in order to keep my brain in shape. Unfortunately, I rarely find that at work.