7 ms·

Taking GNOME to the Next Level

57 points by Xyzodiac 14y ago

ezesolares 14y ago
tired of gnome PR.. gnome is dead, let it RIP
- rbanffy 14y ago
  On what planet is it dead? Gnome is still the default GUI on a lot of operating systems. In fact, I'm quite fond of Gnome Shell on one of my laptops. What bothers m most is what I perceive as a need to follow Microsoft. I fear things like the lock screen thing will prove confusing for many users.
  - snogglethorpe 14y ago
    Yeah, totally agree. Gnome is far from perfect, but I use it, and it's lot better than all the whining would suggest. I think Miguel's obsession with all-things-MS, however, is both counter-productive (e.g. the huge diversion of resources into the utter dead end of Mono), and, frankly, kind of bizarre...
  - gizmo686 14y ago
    What was impressive for me in gnome3 and unity was the huge move away from Windows happening in mainstream distribution defaults. It looks to me like we are still in good place of trying out other peoples ideas without copying their products.
    - kijin 14y ago
      > huge move away from Windows With Windows 8, even Microsoft itself is moving away from the traditional Windows interface. So I'm not sure whether Gnome and Unity are actually being creative in departing from Windows-like interfaces, or merely following the latest trend. The trend used to be led by Microsoft, and the Linux Desktop followed it at the time. Now the trend is led by Apple, and the Linux Desktop follows it again.
      - jdub 14y ago
        The OS X shell hasn't changed terribly much since it was first released. GNOME Shell ("GNOME 3") was publicly designed prior to anyone seeing Windows 8 or Unity (in fact, Unity started after the GNOME 3 development process began). GNOME has more in common with webOS than OS X, Windows 8, or (perish the thought) Unity.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    As fair as I am concerned GNOME is dead and rotting but the major distros, seemingly blind to this, have left it sitting at the head of the table. Among the linux users I know, there are two categories. Those who change their DE, and those who complain endlessly about it.
    - Evbn 14y ago
      And those running Lucid LTS and will never hellgrade to Precise!
      - keithpeter 14y ago
        CentOS 6.3 and above will preserve most of your Lucid experience, and has support for some years. I have CentOS installed on my desktop PC. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/centos.html http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/centos.html You will need to do some fiddling with repositories, research yum-priorities plug in and the various additional repositories. I have Ubuntu 12.04 with Unity on the laptop and find it quite useful on the smaller screen. Looking at the Gnome 3.6 development screen shots on the original article, I might hunt up a ppa and try it...
        deno 14y ago
        It might get you similar versions of various software but RedHat derived distros (like CentOS) and Debian derived distros (like Ubuntu) are very different indeed. Were it not for the common Linux kernel, you might have as well be recommending FreeBSD. Those are two completely different roots: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gldt.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gldt.svg
        keithpeter 14y ago
        True, and one of my reasons for putting centos on the desktop was to educate myself about the differences under the hood. I'm aware of the Upstart/init difference, and apparmor/selinux difference. Any references you have to share would be most welcome. I seem to find that from an end user/desktop user point of view, CentOS delivers much of what Lucid/Squeeze delivered except no banshee (mono libraries not installed). I therefore point out the existence of RHEL clones whenever Ubuntu folk express concern at the shift from Gnome 2 to Unity or Gnome Shell when upgrading from Lucid.
  - batista 14y ago
    >Gnome is still the default GUI on a lot of operating systems The one statement does not contradict the other. For one, any operating system that uses Gnome as its GUI besides Linux has an insignificant user population (FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc).
    - keithpeter 14y ago
      I suspect that the grandparent post was using 'operating systems' to mean 'GNU/Linux distribution'. One of the things that I like about the GNU/Linux 'ecosystem' (by which I mean the plethora of distributions and the various packages available within the repositories of those distributions) is the huge array of choice, especially for devising a GUI that fits the user. I accept that the 'sensible default' issue is real.
- denisinla 14y ago
  Gnome is still alive and kicking, not to mention talks are in place for GnomeOS at the moment.
  - krakensden 14y ago
    Check out the OSTree page on the gnome wiki, and the mailing list. It's actually... quite cool.
    - dfc 14y ago
      https://live.gnome.org/OSTree/ https://live.gnome.org/OSTree/
  - sciurus 14y ago
    LWN wrote a good article on GNOME OS at https://lwn.net/Articles/512783/ https://lwn.net/Articles/512783/ Submitted to HN at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4455028 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4455028
- Xyzodiac 14y ago
  Gnome is very much alive, the blog entry from a month or so ago was concerning but it's still very much a lively project.
  - PommeDeTerre 14y ago
    It's "alive" in the sense that there's still some activity going on, but it's shedding users, and it's becoming irrelevant. I liken it to XFree86. While it may have been very popular and widely-used at one point, it didn't take long at all for users and developers to flee once things started looking bad. People just haven't been happy with GNOME 3. That's a fact. And with no improvements visible on the horizon, more and more people are moving to MATE (and a few to Cinnamon). GNOME can't survive in its current form if people and developers continue to leave it in favor of better desktop environments.
    - sciurus 14y ago
      Compare the amount of GNOME developers discussing GNOME development at http://planet.gnome.org/ http://planet.gnome.org/ to the number of MATE developers discussing MATE development at http://planet.mate-desktop.org/ http://planet.mate-desktop.org/
- buster 14y ago
  Using Gnome all day, nope not dead. Gnome Shell is quite a good environment. I think many people just complain because it's a change. People don't like change.
  - viseztrance 14y ago
    Actually people complain because they need to install an extension to remove the accessibility icon from the top panel.
    - buster 14y ago
      No, they complain about the panel being ddifferent and the workspaces and stuff like that..
      - sigzero 14y ago
        You must be a Gnome Dev too! You aren't listening either.
        buster 14y ago
        lol i'm no gnome dev but i read all that crap on HN since gnome-shell was released (and before unity), so yeah, i can read. If people are too stubborn to try something new, they can still install fvwm95 and live in desktop-yesterday-land for the rest of their lives, no problem.
  - klrr 14y ago
    Totally agree with you, people who don't like what happening can just leave and start using MATE or XFCE instead. GNOME's directions isen't even targeted at the previous userbase anyway. I'm too young to have got into GNOME2 as much as it seems some people have done, but seriously it's just silly to complain and whine. I know some also includes very contructive critism in their complains but most people don't, and that is those I dislike.
    - 14y ago
- sliverstorm 14y ago
  I don't use Gnome anymore, but 9/10 Linux users I know use it (well, Gnome or KDE). That's not very dead.
  - jpkeisala 14y ago
    so, what do you use then?
    - sliverstorm 14y ago
      icewm, fluxbox, dwm. I prefer dwm, but fluxbox and icewm are more often available.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Gnome3, or forks of Gnome2 like Mate?
wangweij 14y ago
Taking GNOME to the Previous Level?
rogerbinns 14y ago
What I want is to be able to use the Gnome Shell at the same time as a panel. Currently you can only pick one. Gnome Shell (and Unity) suck at managing multiple instances of apps or their windows which covers most of what I run due to a dual screen setup. So I need the panel for that, but then can't use the Shell. I did have both working in an earlier release, but the panel was from a third party and they break on every gnome release.
- emilsedgh 14y ago
  KDE could be easily configured to behave like that. disclaimer: KDE contributor.
  - rogerbinns 14y ago
    It has been a while since I last tried KDE so I tried again - using Kubuntu. All I got was a bottom panel and never found any way of getting an equivalent to the Gnome Shell. But it also reminded me why I have never liked KDE - it just feels too busy with too much going on. I prefer things simpler visually as well as functionally. Yes, I'm one of those people who are quite happy when Gnome go around removing configurability (right up till the point it is an option I use). I try to use defaults as much as possible and find it important that they are appealing and well thought out.
    - emilsedgh 14y ago
      Well, you should look for 'Screen Edges' in System Settings. There you can define the proper action for top-left corner (set it to Present Windows effect). Also, you can remove the bottom panel and/or configure it to look like windows, mac or gnome shell. But if you are a person who prefers to stick with defaults, well, KDE's defaults are very old and plain.
      - rogerbinns 14y ago
        That isn't what Gnome shell does - many window managers can do that and it is mostly useless to me since I have so many windows (that are the same) open - taskbars work easier. The useful bits of Gnome shell show up when you press the Windows key (far easier than trying to find a spot on a dual screen setup). Sure you get the window selector, but far more usefully you can start typing stuff and it finds useful matches (apps, contacts etc). It also has a nicer notification system, as well as improved 'tray' (whatever they call it).
krakensden 14y ago
> The way that the tray is triggered has also been changed. The hot corner – which many people had problems with – has been replaced. Instead, the whole of the bottom screen edge now acts as a trigger area; letting the mouse rest there for a short period will cause the tray to appear. We plan to improve this behaviour in subsequent releases, so that a certain about of pressure against the screen edge is required to open the tray (we need to wait for changes down the stack before we can achieve this). Honestly, this makes me nervous. The Gnome team often seems far too willing to ship a bad experience because it will help "drain the swamp".
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- dfc 14y ago
  drain the swamp?
- ealexhudson 14y ago
  I'm looking forward to it - at worst, it means they've just increased the area in which that bar can be activated. I have a dual-screen setup with the primary on the left; that bottom-right corner is often (but not always, weirdly enough) quite hard to hit if there isn't a notification there. This will be a boon to users like me, and I don't see a downside - it seems strictly an improvement, even if they want to improve it further later on...
- krakensden 14y ago
  dfc: you've been hellbanned. "Draining the swamp" is a reference to a 2.0 era initiative on the part of the Gnome team to stop hacking their way around platform deficiencies, and instead fix them directly. That is a big part of the reason there are lots of Gnome-affiliated hackers involved in the lower levels of the desktop Linux stack.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jim_kaiser 14y ago
What I find amazingly idiotic is that when I try to access the url from India, I get this message "The URL you requested has been blocked as per instructions from Department of Telecom(CHNN). URL = afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/taking-gnome-3-to-the-next-level/" Now, why the department of telecommunications is taking down articles on Gnome, one can only speculate. But, I think that they think Gnome is a bittorrent client. It's the only reasonable explanation. :)
- sandGorgon 14y ago
  I'm not getting any such errors on Airtel. FYI - the blocking of torrent sites by ISPs got them penalised for it (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/internet/article3738269.ece http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/internet/article3738269.ece)
- goombastic 14y ago
  Sigh. India, where bureaucracy and logic are at war with each other.
  - luriel 14y ago
    Bureaucracy and logic (and common sense) have been in perpetual war everywhere since the invention of the concept of government.
biomechanica 14y ago
Gnome may not be dead and it's nice to see them work hard to achieve a suitable user experience. However, I personally don't like the look of it. To me it seems the windows don't fit the rest of the U.I. The borders are too big, in my opinion and the buttons don't "feel" right or look right. Usability wise, it's still lacking, I think. I'm a grumpy sob, I guess. I hope they succeed but I have to be honest, I don't think they will. /end grump
- nuclear_eclipse 14y ago
  Thankfully, for those of us who prefer our desktops to work well rather than look good, there are always third party options for themes. I personally combine the "Holo" Gnome Shell theme with the "Adwaita Dark" Gtk theme, and I think the result is a vast improvement.

57 points by Xyzodiac 14y ago

ezesolares 14y ago

tired of gnome PR.. gnome is dead, let it RIP

rbanffy 14y ago
On what planet is it dead? Gnome is still the default GUI on a lot of operating systems. In fact, I'm quite fond of Gnome Shell on one of my laptops. What bothers m most is what I perceive as a need to follow Microsoft. I fear things like the lock screen thing will prove confusing for many users.
- snogglethorpe 14y ago
  Yeah, totally agree. Gnome is far from perfect, but I use it, and it's lot better than all the whining would suggest. I think Miguel's obsession with all-things-MS, however, is both counter-productive (e.g. the huge diversion of resources into the utter dead end of Mono), and, frankly, kind of bizarre...
- gizmo686 14y ago
  What was impressive for me in gnome3 and unity was the huge move away from Windows happening in mainstream distribution defaults. It looks to me like we are still in good place of trying out other peoples ideas without copying their products.
  - kijin 14y ago
    > huge move away from Windows With Windows 8, even Microsoft itself is moving away from the traditional Windows interface. So I'm not sure whether Gnome and Unity are actually being creative in departing from Windows-like interfaces, or merely following the latest trend. The trend used to be led by Microsoft, and the Linux Desktop followed it at the time. Now the trend is led by Apple, and the Linux Desktop follows it again.
    - jdub 14y ago
      The OS X shell hasn't changed terribly much since it was first released. GNOME Shell ("GNOME 3") was publicly designed prior to anyone seeing Windows 8 or Unity (in fact, Unity started after the GNOME 3 development process began). GNOME has more in common with webOS than OS X, Windows 8, or (perish the thought) Unity.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  As fair as I am concerned GNOME is dead and rotting but the major distros, seemingly blind to this, have left it sitting at the head of the table. Among the linux users I know, there are two categories. Those who change their DE, and those who complain endlessly about it.
  - Evbn 14y ago
    And those running Lucid LTS and will never hellgrade to Precise!
    - keithpeter 14y ago
      CentOS 6.3 and above will preserve most of your Lucid experience, and has support for some years. I have CentOS installed on my desktop PC. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/centos.html http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8403291/centos.html You will need to do some fiddling with repositories, research yum-priorities plug in and the various additional repositories. I have Ubuntu 12.04 with Unity on the laptop and find it quite useful on the smaller screen. Looking at the Gnome 3.6 development screen shots on the original article, I might hunt up a ppa and try it...
      - deno 14y ago
        It might get you similar versions of various software but RedHat derived distros (like CentOS) and Debian derived distros (like Ubuntu) are very different indeed. Were it not for the common Linux kernel, you might have as well be recommending FreeBSD. Those are two completely different roots: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gldt.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gldt.svg
        keithpeter 14y ago
        True, and one of my reasons for putting centos on the desktop was to educate myself about the differences under the hood. I'm aware of the Upstart/init difference, and apparmor/selinux difference. Any references you have to share would be most welcome. I seem to find that from an end user/desktop user point of view, CentOS delivers much of what Lucid/Squeeze delivered except no banshee (mono libraries not installed). I therefore point out the existence of RHEL clones whenever Ubuntu folk express concern at the shift from Gnome 2 to Unity or Gnome Shell when upgrading from Lucid.
- batista 14y ago
  >Gnome is still the default GUI on a lot of operating systems The one statement does not contradict the other. For one, any operating system that uses Gnome as its GUI besides Linux has an insignificant user population (FreeBSD, NetBSD, etc).
  - keithpeter 14y ago
    I suspect that the grandparent post was using 'operating systems' to mean 'GNU/Linux distribution'. One of the things that I like about the GNU/Linux 'ecosystem' (by which I mean the plethora of distributions and the various packages available within the repositories of those distributions) is the huge array of choice, especially for devising a GUI that fits the user. I accept that the 'sensible default' issue is real.
denisinla 14y ago
Gnome is still alive and kicking, not to mention talks are in place for GnomeOS at the moment.
- krakensden 14y ago
  Check out the OSTree page on the gnome wiki, and the mailing list. It's actually... quite cool.
  - dfc 14y ago
    https://live.gnome.org/OSTree/ https://live.gnome.org/OSTree/
- sciurus 14y ago
  LWN wrote a good article on GNOME OS at https://lwn.net/Articles/512783/ https://lwn.net/Articles/512783/ Submitted to HN at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4455028 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4455028
Xyzodiac 14y ago
Gnome is very much alive, the blog entry from a month or so ago was concerning but it's still very much a lively project.
- PommeDeTerre 14y ago
  It's "alive" in the sense that there's still some activity going on, but it's shedding users, and it's becoming irrelevant. I liken it to XFree86. While it may have been very popular and widely-used at one point, it didn't take long at all for users and developers to flee once things started looking bad. People just haven't been happy with GNOME 3. That's a fact. And with no improvements visible on the horizon, more and more people are moving to MATE (and a few to Cinnamon). GNOME can't survive in its current form if people and developers continue to leave it in favor of better desktop environments.
  - sciurus 14y ago
    Compare the amount of GNOME developers discussing GNOME development at http://planet.gnome.org/ http://planet.gnome.org/ to the number of MATE developers discussing MATE development at http://planet.mate-desktop.org/ http://planet.mate-desktop.org/
buster 14y ago
Using Gnome all day, nope not dead. Gnome Shell is quite a good environment. I think many people just complain because it's a change. People don't like change.
- viseztrance 14y ago
  Actually people complain because they need to install an extension to remove the accessibility icon from the top panel.
  - buster 14y ago
    No, they complain about the panel being ddifferent and the workspaces and stuff like that..
    - sigzero 14y ago
      You must be a Gnome Dev too! You aren't listening either.
      - buster 14y ago
        lol i'm no gnome dev but i read all that crap on HN since gnome-shell was released (and before unity), so yeah, i can read. If people are too stubborn to try something new, they can still install fvwm95 and live in desktop-yesterday-land for the rest of their lives, no problem.
- klrr 14y ago
  Totally agree with you, people who don't like what happening can just leave and start using MATE or XFCE instead. GNOME's directions isen't even targeted at the previous userbase anyway. I'm too young to have got into GNOME2 as much as it seems some people have done, but seriously it's just silly to complain and whine. I know some also includes very contructive critism in their complains but most people don't, and that is those I dislike.
  - 14y ago
sliverstorm 14y ago
I don't use Gnome anymore, but 9/10 Linux users I know use it (well, Gnome or KDE). That's not very dead.
- jpkeisala 14y ago
  so, what do you use then?
  - sliverstorm 14y ago
    icewm, fluxbox, dwm. I prefer dwm, but fluxbox and icewm are more often available.
- vacri 14y ago
  Gnome3, or forks of Gnome2 like Mate?

wangweij 14y ago

Taking GNOME to the Previous Level?

rogerbinns 14y ago

What I want is to be able to use the Gnome Shell at the same time as a panel. Currently you can only pick one. Gnome Shell (and Unity) suck at managing multiple instances of apps or their windows which covers most of what I run due to a dual screen setup. So I need the panel for that, but then can't use the Shell. I did have both working in an earlier release, but the panel was from a third party and they break on every gnome release.

emilsedgh 14y ago
KDE could be easily configured to behave like that. disclaimer: KDE contributor.
- rogerbinns 14y ago
  It has been a while since I last tried KDE so I tried again - using Kubuntu. All I got was a bottom panel and never found any way of getting an equivalent to the Gnome Shell. But it also reminded me why I have never liked KDE - it just feels too busy with too much going on. I prefer things simpler visually as well as functionally. Yes, I'm one of those people who are quite happy when Gnome go around removing configurability (right up till the point it is an option I use). I try to use defaults as much as possible and find it important that they are appealing and well thought out.
  - emilsedgh 14y ago
    Well, you should look for 'Screen Edges' in System Settings. There you can define the proper action for top-left corner (set it to Present Windows effect). Also, you can remove the bottom panel and/or configure it to look like windows, mac or gnome shell. But if you are a person who prefers to stick with defaults, well, KDE's defaults are very old and plain.
    - rogerbinns 14y ago
      That isn't what Gnome shell does - many window managers can do that and it is mostly useless to me since I have so many windows (that are the same) open - taskbars work easier. The useful bits of Gnome shell show up when you press the Windows key (far easier than trying to find a spot on a dual screen setup). Sure you get the window selector, but far more usefully you can start typing stuff and it finds useful matches (apps, contacts etc). It also has a nicer notification system, as well as improved 'tray' (whatever they call it).

krakensden 14y ago

> The way that the tray is triggered has also been changed. The hot corner – which many people had problems with – has been replaced. Instead, the whole of the bottom screen edge now acts as a trigger area; letting the mouse rest there for a short period will cause the tray to appear. We plan to improve this behaviour in subsequent releases, so that a certain about of pressure against the screen edge is required to open the tray (we need to wait for changes down the stack before we can achieve this). Honestly, this makes me nervous. The Gnome team often seems far too willing to ship a bad experience because it will help "drain the swamp".

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dfc 14y ago
drain the swamp?
ealexhudson 14y ago
I'm looking forward to it - at worst, it means they've just increased the area in which that bar can be activated. I have a dual-screen setup with the primary on the left; that bottom-right corner is often (but not always, weirdly enough) quite hard to hit if there isn't a notification there. This will be a boon to users like me, and I don't see a downside - it seems strictly an improvement, even if they want to improve it further later on...
krakensden 14y ago
dfc: you've been hellbanned. "Draining the swamp" is a reference to a 2.0 era initiative on the part of the Gnome team to stop hacking their way around platform deficiencies, and instead fix them directly. That is a big part of the reason there are lots of Gnome-affiliated hackers involved in the lower levels of the desktop Linux stack.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jim_kaiser 14y ago

What I find amazingly idiotic is that when I try to access the url from India, I get this message "The URL you requested has been blocked as per instructions from Department of Telecom(CHNN). URL = afaikblog.wordpress.com/2012/08/31/taking-gnome-3-to-the-next-level/" Now, why the department of telecommunications is taking down articles on Gnome, one can only speculate. But, I think that they think Gnome is a bittorrent client. It's the only reasonable explanation. :)

sandGorgon 14y ago
I'm not getting any such errors on Airtel. FYI - the blocking of torrent sites by ISPs got them penalised for it (http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/internet/article3738269.ece http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/internet/article3738269.ece)
goombastic 14y ago
Sigh. India, where bureaucracy and logic are at war with each other.
- luriel 14y ago
  Bureaucracy and logic (and common sense) have been in perpetual war everywhere since the invention of the concept of government.

biomechanica 14y ago

Gnome may not be dead and it's nice to see them work hard to achieve a suitable user experience. However, I personally don't like the look of it. To me it seems the windows don't fit the rest of the U.I. The borders are too big, in my opinion and the buttons don't "feel" right or look right. Usability wise, it's still lacking, I think. I'm a grumpy sob, I guess. I hope they succeed but I have to be honest, I don't think they will. /end grump

nuclear_eclipse 14y ago
Thankfully, for those of us who prefer our desktops to work well rather than look good, there are always third party options for themes. I personally combine the "Holo" Gnome Shell theme with the "Adwaita Dark" Gtk theme, and I think the result is a vast improvement.