4 ms·

I think Radon exposure is a serious matter, but its concentration in the USA either is probably overrated OR indeed you have a local geological problem. In Euro

by kensai 1y ago

I think Radon exposure is a serious matter, but its concentration in the USA either is probably overrated OR indeed you have a local geological problem. In Europe we even have the tradition of Radon Therapy for certain pathologies in Spa. Of course, one should do these therapies under medical consultation. https://www.alpentherme.com/en/therapy-health/therapy/radon-therapy https://www.alpentherme.com/en/therapy-health/therapy/radon-...

MengerSponge 1y ago
In the early 20th century America also used to have lots of radiation therapy providers. It's quackery, and harmful quackery at that. Just because you have a tradition of something doesn't mean it's effective. Or safe. Or wise.
- kensai 1y ago
  People with rheumatological diseases beg to differ. I understand nowadays it's a little bit odd, given the more sophisticated technological therapies that exist, but getting exposure to radon in certain calculated doses is how it was supposed to work. I agree that the mechanism of "radiation hormesis" is kind of weak, but it has not been disproved as quackery either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
infecto 1y ago
Absolutely bunk science with no real evidence supporting. It’s like saying autism is created from vaccines. A lot of the US has radon exposure. I don’t how people come out saying things like you do but at the end of the day it’s exposure to radiation. I have seen it all, people will say it only impacts children or the elderly. Or that it’s an overblown conspiracy. Radon is radioactive, I am sure there are discussions on safe exposure levels but mitigation is so inexpensive and normalized why risk it.
- kensai 1y ago
  Not on the same level as autism correlated to vaccines. And radiation hormesis has not been disproved as "bunk science" as far as it is widely known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
  - infecto 1y ago
    Nothing you have said in this thread has been supported by studies. Everything is a hypothesis or proposal. I would expect if this was real that there would be more concrete evidence over the decades, yet none exist. Maybe it’s not a falsified hypothesis but it’s at best a hypothesis. I am much more into the proven by a study science and medicine and not feelings.
    - kensai 1y ago
      Actually there are many (admittedly weak or low in n) studies in Europe, which show some benefit. I will post some titles later, check this space. I agree that there are no big prospective studies and probably will never anymore be, because there is really no interest or gain from big pharma. The big time of physical therapies was last century and all studies, at least in Germany, stop by the 90s. An interesting article to read about the different approaches in Europe and America is this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2203/dose-response.06-007.Erickson https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2203/dose-response.06-00...
      - infecto 1y ago
        Please don’t I won’t read them. I already saw the overview ok Wikipedia. Some studies that may suggest hormesis, most of them flawed. Everything is either a proposal or hypothesis. Absolutely it should be studied but those radiation spas are bunk science for now.
        kensai 1y ago
        Prove where is the flaw first. A small or old study is not necessarily flawed. The burden of proving they are flawed falls on you. And no, I care less that they have not been replicated because the community lacks interest. Nobody said the effect is miraculous or similar, to compete with modern medical applications, but certainly they are cheap methods that complement with other general wellness effects of spas.
ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
> How radon works: Cellular repair in the body is stimulated, the number of free radicals is reduced. Yikes! Not only are free radicals increased, because you're being bombarded with ionizing radiation, but any cellular repair stimulated is because of the cellular damage done!* I have to assume "the number of free radicals is reduced" is intentionally written awkwardly and in a passive voice, to avoid adding "...after the "radon therapy" stops. * - And it's not gonna be a net positive!
- kensai 1y ago
  Many physical therapies work on the principle of the stimulus and some net effects happen after that is stopped. Even fasting diets work like this according to specialists like Walter Longo: the best part happens when you stop the fasting and start eating again. You could argue something similar happens when you finish the certain exposure to radon after a trip to Bad Gastein.
  - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
    > You could argue something similar happens when you finish the certain exposure to radon I could, but then I'd be arguing something I don't believe, and have no evidence to support! I don't know that it would be worth it to entertain a hypothesis that, as far as I can tell, nobody here believes and has evidence to support.
    - kensai 1y ago
      The hormesis hypothesis has not been widely proven, but it has not disproved either. It's still a working hypothesis. And yes, patients sometime work with hypothesized therapies, especially if conventional therapies don't work for them or they get many adverse effects from them.
      - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
        If I told you that hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer was good for you, would you have as much support and deference for The Schwanzhammertherapie Hypothesis as you do for hitting yourself all over with ionizing radiation? After all, I can't find any studies disproving it. Here is how Schwanzhammertherapie works: 'cellular repair in the body is stimulated, the number of dick hammerings is reduced'.

by kensai 1y ago

MengerSponge 1y ago

In the early 20th century America also used to have lots of radiation therapy providers. It's quackery, and harmful quackery at that. Just because you have a tradition of something doesn't mean it's effective. Or safe. Or wise.

kensai 1y ago
People with rheumatological diseases beg to differ. I understand nowadays it's a little bit odd, given the more sophisticated technological therapies that exist, but getting exposure to radon in certain calculated doses is how it was supposed to work. I agree that the mechanism of "radiation hormesis" is kind of weak, but it has not been disproved as quackery either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis

infecto 1y ago

Absolutely bunk science with no real evidence supporting. It’s like saying autism is created from vaccines. A lot of the US has radon exposure. I don’t how people come out saying things like you do but at the end of the day it’s exposure to radiation. I have seen it all, people will say it only impacts children or the elderly. Or that it’s an overblown conspiracy. Radon is radioactive, I am sure there are discussions on safe exposure levels but mitigation is so inexpensive and normalized why risk it.

kensai 1y ago
Not on the same level as autism correlated to vaccines. And radiation hormesis has not been disproved as "bunk science" as far as it is widely known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
- infecto 1y ago
  Nothing you have said in this thread has been supported by studies. Everything is a hypothesis or proposal. I would expect if this was real that there would be more concrete evidence over the decades, yet none exist. Maybe it’s not a falsified hypothesis but it’s at best a hypothesis. I am much more into the proven by a study science and medicine and not feelings.
  - kensai 1y ago
    Actually there are many (admittedly weak or low in n) studies in Europe, which show some benefit. I will post some titles later, check this space. I agree that there are no big prospective studies and probably will never anymore be, because there is really no interest or gain from big pharma. The big time of physical therapies was last century and all studies, at least in Germany, stop by the 90s. An interesting article to read about the different approaches in Europe and America is this: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2203/dose-response.06-007.Erickson https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2203/dose-response.06-00...
    - infecto 1y ago
      Please don’t I won’t read them. I already saw the overview ok Wikipedia. Some studies that may suggest hormesis, most of them flawed. Everything is either a proposal or hypothesis. Absolutely it should be studied but those radiation spas are bunk science for now.
      - kensai 1y ago
        Prove where is the flaw first. A small or old study is not necessarily flawed. The burden of proving they are flawed falls on you. And no, I care less that they have not been replicated because the community lacks interest. Nobody said the effect is miraculous or similar, to compete with modern medical applications, but certainly they are cheap methods that complement with other general wellness effects of spas.

ImPostingOnHN 1y ago

> How radon works: Cellular repair in the body is stimulated, the number of free radicals is reduced. Yikes! Not only are free radicals increased, because you're being bombarded with ionizing radiation, but any cellular repair stimulated is because of the cellular damage done!* I have to assume "the number of free radicals is reduced" is intentionally written awkwardly and in a passive voice, to avoid adding "...after the "radon therapy" stops. * - And it's not gonna be a net positive!

kensai 1y ago
Many physical therapies work on the principle of the stimulus and some net effects happen after that is stopped. Even fasting diets work like this according to specialists like Walter Longo: the best part happens when you stop the fasting and start eating again. You could argue something similar happens when you finish the certain exposure to radon after a trip to Bad Gastein.
- ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
  > You could argue something similar happens when you finish the certain exposure to radon I could, but then I'd be arguing something I don't believe, and have no evidence to support! I don't know that it would be worth it to entertain a hypothesis that, as far as I can tell, nobody here believes and has evidence to support.
  - kensai 1y ago
    The hormesis hypothesis has not been widely proven, but it has not disproved either. It's still a working hypothesis. And yes, patients sometime work with hypothesized therapies, especially if conventional therapies don't work for them or they get many adverse effects from them.
    - ImPostingOnHN 1y ago
      If I told you that hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer was good for you, would you have as much support and deference for The Schwanzhammertherapie Hypothesis as you do for hitting yourself all over with ionizing radiation? After all, I can't find any studies disproving it. Here is how Schwanzhammertherapie works: 'cellular repair in the body is stimulated, the number of dick hammerings is reduced'.