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Having experienced emergency care in both Denmark and the U.S., this is also the main reason I won't relocate to the U.S. until this is sorted out. LOL. Go to

by javert 14y ago

Having experienced emergency care in both Denmark and the U.S., this is also the main reason I won't relocate to the U.S. until this is sorted out. LOL. Go to the emergency room now in the US, with a real emergency, wait for hours. After this is sorted? Wait for days, maybe? Our health system is completely broken in every way, and building up more bureaucracy is just going to make it worse. I am counting on hospital visits not even being an option in the future, in the US.

tptacek 14y ago
Exactly what part of an emergency room visit is going to change in 2014, when PPACA is fully implemented? Please be as specific as you can, while limiting the detail you provide to the "amount of time taken to see someone at an emergency room" example you've used in this comment.
- javert 14y ago
  I expect the continued growth of socialized medicine to continue the trend of less and less competence among medical professionals, and less and less medical professionals period (particularly doctors--which seem to be in acute shortage already). So, nothing will change overnight, but this certainly isn't going to allow things to get _better_, which would eventually happen in a more free-market medical system. Americans are exceptionally good at everything the free market touches (consider the tech world). Medicine could, and should, be a lot like going to the vet. Extreme competence, speed, and low price. The difference? There honestly isn't that much of a difference, except veterinary practice is pretty much a free market. By the way, I've personally been forced to undergo unreasonably waits at the ER (I was kicked out of the building by a security guard because I wouldn't take a seat or stand - I couldn't physically do either, and I went and laid down in a parking lot outside). I've also seen a loved one hurt--potentially very severely over what could have been the case, but who knows--by not getting competent attention during a stroke. And there is at least one other bad story I won't get into here. By the way, I do think my stories are representative of a larger trend. The above-mentioned incidents occured in different hospitals mixed between the east and west coast. That still isn't enough to prove anything. But I'm hearing complaints from a lot of people. Also, if you talk to someone applying to med school, you'll see that the number of doctors is being artificially restricted. The public discussion about healthcare is missing a huge component, which is: why is our healthcare so completely shoddy and incompetent today? What can we do to change that? And, why aren't there enough doctors? I'm talking totally independent of the _cost_, which admittedly is also a problem.
  - brazzy 14y ago
    "Medicine could, and should, be a lot like going to the vet." Yeah, and patients whose cures are more expensive than they can afford should be put down painlessly, eh? There are some aspects of health care where free market mechanisms can improve efficiency, but efficiency is not by itself the ultimate goal a health care system should have.
    - javert 14y ago
      How much does it cost to treat a dog for the most serious medical problems, like cancer? I bet it's trivial compared to the cost of a human. I bet it's so little, that we could actually think about treating everyone for everything, if we could get human treatment to that level of efficiency. Seriously, it's the most humane way to go. In the meantime, I'll be thinking about going to India if I or loved ones need serious medical care.
neurotech1 14y ago
It seems that most people get confused between ER & "trauma" service. If it was a "real emergency" (chest pain/stroke etc) the patient would go straight to the trauma service. Not so critical emergencies are treated in the ER, and that can involve 3-4 hour wait. Quite a few hospitals with ERs also have a 'urgent care' or 'express care' clinic attached which are quite effective as they can a lot of things a ER can do, and expedite transfer to the ER if can't be treated there.

by javert 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

Exactly what part of an emergency room visit is going to change in 2014, when PPACA is fully implemented? Please be as specific as you can, while limiting the detail you provide to the "amount of time taken to see someone at an emergency room" example you've used in this comment.

javert 14y ago
I expect the continued growth of socialized medicine to continue the trend of less and less competence among medical professionals, and less and less medical professionals period (particularly doctors--which seem to be in acute shortage already). So, nothing will change overnight, but this certainly isn't going to allow things to get _better_, which would eventually happen in a more free-market medical system. Americans are exceptionally good at everything the free market touches (consider the tech world). Medicine could, and should, be a lot like going to the vet. Extreme competence, speed, and low price. The difference? There honestly isn't that much of a difference, except veterinary practice is pretty much a free market. By the way, I've personally been forced to undergo unreasonably waits at the ER (I was kicked out of the building by a security guard because I wouldn't take a seat or stand - I couldn't physically do either, and I went and laid down in a parking lot outside). I've also seen a loved one hurt--potentially very severely over what could have been the case, but who knows--by not getting competent attention during a stroke. And there is at least one other bad story I won't get into here. By the way, I do think my stories are representative of a larger trend. The above-mentioned incidents occured in different hospitals mixed between the east and west coast. That still isn't enough to prove anything. But I'm hearing complaints from a lot of people. Also, if you talk to someone applying to med school, you'll see that the number of doctors is being artificially restricted. The public discussion about healthcare is missing a huge component, which is: why is our healthcare so completely shoddy and incompetent today? What can we do to change that? And, why aren't there enough doctors? I'm talking totally independent of the _cost_, which admittedly is also a problem.
- brazzy 14y ago
  "Medicine could, and should, be a lot like going to the vet." Yeah, and patients whose cures are more expensive than they can afford should be put down painlessly, eh? There are some aspects of health care where free market mechanisms can improve efficiency, but efficiency is not by itself the ultimate goal a health care system should have.
  - javert 14y ago
    How much does it cost to treat a dog for the most serious medical problems, like cancer? I bet it's trivial compared to the cost of a human. I bet it's so little, that we could actually think about treating everyone for everything, if we could get human treatment to that level of efficiency. Seriously, it's the most humane way to go. In the meantime, I'll be thinking about going to India if I or loved ones need serious medical care.

neurotech1 14y ago

It seems that most people get confused between ER & "trauma" service. If it was a "real emergency" (chest pain/stroke etc) the patient would go straight to the trauma service. Not so critical emergencies are treated in the ER, and that can involve 3-4 hour wait. Quite a few hospitals with ERs also have a 'urgent care' or 'express care' clinic attached which are quite effective as they can a lot of things a ER can do, and expedite transfer to the ER if can't be treated there.