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8% sounds great. US currently spends around 16% of GDP on health care every year. I think the majority of Americans would support a universal health care system

8% sounds great. US currently spends around 16% of GDP on health care every year. I think the majority of Americans would support a universal health care system that provides far more coverage at half the cost. Instead our total spend is expected to double by 2020. Source: http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/economy/healthcare_spending_forecast/index.htm http://money.cnn.com/2011/07/28/news/economy/healthcare_spen...

vegardx 14y ago
Should be noted that there is not a direct correlation between tax paid for health care and cost of health care. It's heavily subsidised by the government, from taxes taken elsewhere. In Norway it's like this: Senior citizen: 4,7% Employed: 7,8% Self-employed: 11% Last time I checked we spent around 9% of GDP on healthcare.
anonymoushn 14y ago
The great thing is that this expense grows at a rate of 9%/year while the economy is stagnant. If GDP miraculously and immediately begins to grow at 5%/year, health care spending will completely eclipse it in 50 years. If it does not, health care spending will completely eclipse it in 28 years.
- lesterbuck 14y ago
  Herbert Stein's Law: "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." The only question is how the rate of growth will slow/stop.
tptacek 14y ago
Worth noting that the US leads Europe in outcomes for serious illnesses (particularly cancer), and the US provides access to specialists in days where other countries often have multi-week or even multi-month delays.
- olefoo 14y ago
  Yes, but, europeans generally see a healthcare provider more often and are more often diagnosed before they reach an acute stage. If you look at the graphs [1][2][3] that compare per capita expenditures per country with life expectancy per country. You'll see that they are generally getting equivalent or better outcomes at less than half the cost. And I can tell you that for my own part, even with health insurance, the deductible is so high that it might as well not exist as far as basic checkups and doctor visits go. 1 http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php 2. http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.html http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.h... 3. http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2011/03/health_costs_and_life_expectancy http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2011/03/health_cos...
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Life expectancy is a poor proxy for health care effectiveness. By some methodologies, once you take out things like auto accidents, the United States snaps right back into first place in those rankings. Meanwhile, in disease-by-disease rankings, the US routinely leads. We do spend a lot for health care in the US, and we probably aren't realizing comparable value, but it is also probably not true that the actual quality of care in the US lags that of Europe.
    - lox 14y ago
      Why is it a poor proxy? What would be a better one?
      - tptacek 14y ago
        Something that wasn't confounded with deaths by suicide and high-speed automobile accidents, both of which are so anomalously high in the US that when you factor them out of life expectancy the rankings are totally different. Say what you will about the worldwide quality of mental health care, but there's not a whole lot a good hospital can do once you've set out to harm yourself, and that one particular tragically underserved health problem is not what people are thinking about when they suggest "Americans pay more money to get less than what Europeans do". That last notion is dubious at best.

vegardx 14y ago

Should be noted that there is not a direct correlation between tax paid for health care and cost of health care. It's heavily subsidised by the government, from taxes taken elsewhere. In Norway it's like this: Senior citizen: 4,7% Employed: 7,8% Self-employed: 11% Last time I checked we spent around 9% of GDP on healthcare.

anonymoushn 14y ago

The great thing is that this expense grows at a rate of 9%/year while the economy is stagnant. If GDP miraculously and immediately begins to grow at 5%/year, health care spending will completely eclipse it in 50 years. If it does not, health care spending will completely eclipse it in 28 years.

lesterbuck 14y ago
Herbert Stein's Law: "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." The only question is how the rate of growth will slow/stop.

tptacek 14y ago

Worth noting that the US leads Europe in outcomes for serious illnesses (particularly cancer), and the US provides access to specialists in days where other countries often have multi-week or even multi-month delays.

olefoo 14y ago
Yes, but, europeans generally see a healthcare provider more often and are more often diagnosed before they reach an acute stage. If you look at the graphs [1][2][3] that compare per capita expenditures per country with life expectancy per country. You'll see that they are generally getting equivalent or better outcomes at less than half the cost. And I can tell you that for my own part, even with health insurance, the deductible is so high that it might as well not exist as far as basic checkups and doctor visits go. 1 http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php 2. http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.html http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2009/12/the-cost-of-care.h... 3. http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2011/03/health_costs_and_life_expectancy http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2011/03/health_cos...
- tptacek 14y ago
  Life expectancy is a poor proxy for health care effectiveness. By some methodologies, once you take out things like auto accidents, the United States snaps right back into first place in those rankings. Meanwhile, in disease-by-disease rankings, the US routinely leads. We do spend a lot for health care in the US, and we probably aren't realizing comparable value, but it is also probably not true that the actual quality of care in the US lags that of Europe.
  - lox 14y ago
    Why is it a poor proxy? What would be a better one?
    - tptacek 14y ago
      Something that wasn't confounded with deaths by suicide and high-speed automobile accidents, both of which are so anomalously high in the US that when you factor them out of life expectancy the rankings are totally different. Say what you will about the worldwide quality of mental health care, but there's not a whole lot a good hospital can do once you've set out to harm yourself, and that one particular tragically underserved health problem is not what people are thinking about when they suggest "Americans pay more money to get less than what Europeans do". That last notion is dubious at best.