5 ms·

In the little corner of Europe where I live food became more noticeably expensive with the Ukraine war. Not everything but a number of items. At one point, the

by luckys 1y ago

In the little corner of Europe where I live food became more noticeably expensive with the Ukraine war. Not everything but a number of items. At one point, the price of olive oil was raised because vegetable oil had to be cheaper than olive oil!

OfficeChad 1y ago
Olive Groves were hit by Xylella fastidiosa.
astahlx 1y ago
Evidence? Olive oil got more expensive because of weather extremes https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20231218-why-olive-oil-prices-are-soaring-and-what-to-do-about-it https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20231218-why-olive-oil-pr... . Who sets the rule that one oil must be cheaper than the other? Which country? Which type of olive oil?
- luckys 1y ago
  Portugal. You would have to live here I guess. It was about 2 years ago and I don't have any sources to give you. Ask the locals if you know any. Olive oil may be more expensive in general now because of poor harvests but at the time local production had been good and there was no reason to raise the price. The rationale? I guess it was profit.
  - mk89 1y ago
    There was a huge spike in demand, due to the lack of cheaper alternatives. Sadly enough, the prices have stayed the same, although the demand has very likely normalized, now that people can buy "again" sunflower and other vegetable oil.
  - graemep 1y ago
    > at the time local production had been good Ye,s but prices are not just local. In general these are world prices as it can easily be imported or exported. Even more so within the EU single market which IS your national market. On top of that its entirely normal for the prices of products that can substitute for each other to move together. If one oil goes up in price so will all the others. This is market forces acting as expected.
  - hnhg 1y ago
    I feel across Europe at least companies are using data to optimise price by demand closely - large corporate suppliers almost definitely have the staff at hand to increase prices using data in the same way that "surge" pricing is calculated these days. They have every incentive to do so since they want to maximise profit.
- bigthymer 1y ago
  Ukraine is the largest exporter of sunflower oil with Russia being #2. They are still #1 as of 2023 [1] so the war appears not to have completely interrupted supply but may have made it more expensive to distribute. WSJ reports that the war's effect on sunflower oil is causing a rise in price of all cooking oils. [1] - https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/sunflower-seed-or-safflower-oil-crude https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/sunflower-seed-or-safflower-... [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtWDmo0rKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtWDmo0rKg
- mk89 1y ago
  We're talking about mainly 4 countries in the Mediterranean Sea. The way I see it is that while it's true that there is an issue with the weather, they increased the prices in 2022 due to old high-demand/low-offer law (other cheaper oil not available, buy whatever is there: olive oil). The prices never decreased though, or if they did, it's unnoticeable. This pattern I have seen multiple times in my life: once companies realize people are going to pay for something for a certain price, why reduce it?
  - GoblinSlayer 1y ago
    I guess plants don't respect Adam Smith. To lower prices you should increase production, but you can't increase production of plants by just pressing a button and have two times more copies of them, you need more land and wait many months for them to grow.
- nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
  have you been on the grounds of the olive oil producers? they had to increase prices because crisis talk and civil conflicts increased prices elsewhere. even unrelated prices cause increases up the graphs in all directions. it's mostly lies, of course, but they catch up. don't take my word on it, obviously, but the math checks out "if you follow the money". essentially, logistical cost increases as well as oil and insurance prices were the determining factors, not extreme weather. despite zero change in the scarcity of any of the factors. (they found more oil etc) crisis talk was also the reason for increased demand in some countries as idiots started to stock up and panic buy. I remember buying flour at a local producer and she said "they are all fucking crazy, nothing changes". the Russians were still stuck for days in front of the border in a long convoy, wahahaha, according to the news.
aivisol 1y ago
Can confirm this. I think it was sunflower oil which went through the roof when war started not vegetable though.
- mk89 1y ago
  As well as rapeseed oil. Here in Germany it reached the prices of olive oil, which was insane.
  - Kichererbsen 1y ago
    (canola oil i think is what americans might know it as. or something similar)
    - stormdennis 1y ago
      Yes, with the 'can' in canola being the first 3 letters of Canada. They though up the name as they reckoned the name rapeseed was problematic from a marketing point of view. I've heard that like all oils that require extensive processing canola/rapeseed oil is not good for you as it contains the wrong sort of fatty acids as a result of that processing. Olive oil, lard, butter, coconut and ghee are all far healthier.
      - soco 1y ago
        Also almost any seed oils, even cold processed, are emitting toxic components when overheated - and who can avoid overheating in a pan? I think there was a HN discussion recently about a higher incidence of lung cancer related to hot oil cooking...
        mk89 1y ago
        Do you mean reaching/exceeding the smoke point? Or just generally "heating up oil"?
        1y ago

by luckys 1y ago

OfficeChad 1y ago

Olive Groves were hit by Xylella fastidiosa.

astahlx 1y ago

Evidence? Olive oil got more expensive because of weather extremes https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20231218-why-olive-oil-prices-are-soaring-and-what-to-do-about-it https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20231218-why-olive-oil-pr... . Who sets the rule that one oil must be cheaper than the other? Which country? Which type of olive oil?

luckys 1y ago
Portugal. You would have to live here I guess. It was about 2 years ago and I don't have any sources to give you. Ask the locals if you know any. Olive oil may be more expensive in general now because of poor harvests but at the time local production had been good and there was no reason to raise the price. The rationale? I guess it was profit.
- mk89 1y ago
  There was a huge spike in demand, due to the lack of cheaper alternatives. Sadly enough, the prices have stayed the same, although the demand has very likely normalized, now that people can buy "again" sunflower and other vegetable oil.
- graemep 1y ago
  > at the time local production had been good Ye,s but prices are not just local. In general these are world prices as it can easily be imported or exported. Even more so within the EU single market which IS your national market. On top of that its entirely normal for the prices of products that can substitute for each other to move together. If one oil goes up in price so will all the others. This is market forces acting as expected.
- hnhg 1y ago
  I feel across Europe at least companies are using data to optimise price by demand closely - large corporate suppliers almost definitely have the staff at hand to increase prices using data in the same way that "surge" pricing is calculated these days. They have every incentive to do so since they want to maximise profit.
bigthymer 1y ago
Ukraine is the largest exporter of sunflower oil with Russia being #2. They are still #1 as of 2023 [1] so the war appears not to have completely interrupted supply but may have made it more expensive to distribute. WSJ reports that the war's effect on sunflower oil is causing a rise in price of all cooking oils. [1] - https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/sunflower-seed-or-safflower-oil-crude https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/sunflower-seed-or-safflower-... [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtWDmo0rKg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtWDmo0rKg
mk89 1y ago
We're talking about mainly 4 countries in the Mediterranean Sea. The way I see it is that while it's true that there is an issue with the weather, they increased the prices in 2022 due to old high-demand/low-offer law (other cheaper oil not available, buy whatever is there: olive oil). The prices never decreased though, or if they did, it's unnoticeable. This pattern I have seen multiple times in my life: once companies realize people are going to pay for something for a certain price, why reduce it?
- GoblinSlayer 1y ago
  I guess plants don't respect Adam Smith. To lower prices you should increase production, but you can't increase production of plants by just pressing a button and have two times more copies of them, you need more land and wait many months for them to grow.
nudgeOrnurture 1y ago
have you been on the grounds of the olive oil producers? they had to increase prices because crisis talk and civil conflicts increased prices elsewhere. even unrelated prices cause increases up the graphs in all directions. it's mostly lies, of course, but they catch up. don't take my word on it, obviously, but the math checks out "if you follow the money". essentially, logistical cost increases as well as oil and insurance prices were the determining factors, not extreme weather. despite zero change in the scarcity of any of the factors. (they found more oil etc) crisis talk was also the reason for increased demand in some countries as idiots started to stock up and panic buy. I remember buying flour at a local producer and she said "they are all fucking crazy, nothing changes". the Russians were still stuck for days in front of the border in a long convoy, wahahaha, according to the news.

aivisol 1y ago

Can confirm this. I think it was sunflower oil which went through the roof when war started not vegetable though.

mk89 1y ago
As well as rapeseed oil. Here in Germany it reached the prices of olive oil, which was insane.
- Kichererbsen 1y ago
  (canola oil i think is what americans might know it as. or something similar)
  - stormdennis 1y ago
    Yes, with the 'can' in canola being the first 3 letters of Canada. They though up the name as they reckoned the name rapeseed was problematic from a marketing point of view. I've heard that like all oils that require extensive processing canola/rapeseed oil is not good for you as it contains the wrong sort of fatty acids as a result of that processing. Olive oil, lard, butter, coconut and ghee are all far healthier.
    - soco 1y ago
      Also almost any seed oils, even cold processed, are emitting toxic components when overheated - and who can avoid overheating in a pan? I think there was a HN discussion recently about a higher incidence of lung cancer related to hot oil cooking...
      - mk89 1y ago
        Do you mean reaching/exceeding the smoke point? Or just generally "heating up oil"?
        1y ago