7 ms·

Understanding Ego Depletion

155 points by diego 14y ago

nostromo 14y ago
It seems trivial, but last year there were related findings with very real consequences: "Judges are more lenient after taking a break, study finds. Prisoners are more likely to be granted parole early in the day or after a break such as lunch, according to researchers" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/apr/11/judges-lenient-break http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/apr/11/judges-lenient-bre...) Here is the actual paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/108/17/6889 http://www.pnas.org/content/108/17/6889
jwilliams 14y ago
How generalizable is this outside food? There was the cheating example, but that felt a bit more abstract than the other examples. I wonder if a taxed mind simply makes us craze glucose to keep it powered. Either way, I think most people could associate with this - if I'm stressed I'll figure I deserve whatever treat. I think part of the problem is the effort and reward aren't linked at all. If I need to push on something - I try to build the reward in - e.g. Big week of work and I'll buy an LP, or go out, whatever. Then I feel less inclined to grab something unhealthy "cos I deserve it".
verroq 14y ago
Another take on this: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/ http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/
acgourley 14y ago
Understanding ego depletion and willpower are incredibly important skills for any knowledge worker. A book like http://www.amazon.com/The-Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Matters/dp/1583334386 http://www.amazon.com/The-Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Ma... will help a programmer perform better work than a book on compilers.
- lpolovets 14y ago
  I read the book a few months ago and thought it was excellent. If anyone is interested, I took extensive notes (warning, they kind of spoil reading the book, which I think is very much worth reading): http://leopolovets.com/blog/2011/10/23/book-notes-on-willpower/ http://leopolovets.com/blog/2011/10/23/book-notes-on-willpow...
  - rrmm 14y ago
    good set of notes, thanks.
  - emini_guy 14y ago
    Useful notes, thanks.
  - andyjsong 14y ago
    > Zeigarnik effect: uncompleted tasks and unmet goals tend to pop into one’s mind. Once the task is completed and the goal is reached, however, this stream of reminders comes to a stop. For example, if you listen to a song, your mind moves on; if you listen to a song that’s abruptly cut off in the middle, your mind will continue inserting bits and pieces of the song into your stream of thoughts, reminding you that you’re not “done” listening. Interesting, I wonder if this is the same as when you have a song stuck (looping) in your head. I've been told that listening to the whole song will make it unstuck.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      My observations confirm both of these assertions. Leaving a song (I was semi-actively listening to) unfinished will make it stuck in my head, finishing it will remove it.
    - emini_guy 14y ago
      Did not know that it was named after someone. A very familiar effect that most have probably encountered in one way or another.
  - 14y ago
rdtsc 14y ago
Does this explain why many crappy infomercials are airing late night on TV. By that point people have depleted their willpower and will just buy any junk that is shown to them?
- andreasvc 14y ago
  No, that just happens to be the time when the networks don't have any programming, which they sell for a much more reasonable price than prime time commercials.
  - bgilroy26 14y ago
    These two conditions work together
gwern 14y ago
But then again: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2y2/willpower_not_a_limited_resource/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/2y2/willpower_not_a_limited_resource...
- rrmm 14y ago
  From scanning that paper, I'm guessing that talking about willpower as a limited resource causes those in that group to assume that willpower is not only limited but small and about to run out as well. So for example, if one were to talk about sunlight as being a limited resource (which it is), it carries the implication that that limit is close enough to worry about. People's attention is drawn to the idea that they will run out of willpower. The first time they start to experience depletion, they give up, because they assume they've run out. It would be interesting to repeat the experiment, but tell the participants that in addition to the normal amount of willpower, they also have a secondary reserve which, with a little more effort, they can tap into to double or triple their performance.
smartkids 14y ago
Sounds more like energy depletion that "ego depletion". The more stress the person is undergoing the more energy is drained. Isn't this obvious? I thought Ariely was known for brilliant insights on human behaviour. Maybe he's become a dieting guru? That's where the money is? People overeat when they're stressed. Everyone knows that. But why? I've sometimes thought it's because overeating is like an opiate. Think about how you feel after a big meal. The blood rushes to your stomach, you might even feel sleepy and it's much more difficult to "get stressed" than it is on an empty stomach.
- zxcdw 14y ago
  When you're stressed your blood's glucose levels get depleted which weakens your ability for self-control. Once you give in, especially when you are tired and exhausted, it's easier to go all "fuck this, imma eat all I can for now and eat better later on!". Of course, eating increases the glucose level of your blood and afterwards you feel kind of bad about it and the whole idea of giving in starts to feel stupid - "I could've sticked to my promise", "It was just stupid, I should have been stronger". There's also the fact that habitual snacking and eating "just a bit... ...all the time" grows 1) a mental habit to the act of eating 2) physical dependency to the act of having glucose levels high 3) mental and physical dependency on the good experience(smell and taste). I used to be a person who ate once a day(lunch), and perhaps ate a fruit(banana or an apple) a few times a week to supplement. Back then I really pitied people who couldn't control their weight. To me it was outright laughable that someone simply could not refuse the sweets, pastries, soft drinks, ... because for me they were never even an option I considered. These days though, while I am not obese(although I've gained a lot of weigh which I know I should get rid of) I've realized that I've became a habitual eater. I eat constantly, all the time. Small snacks, soft drinks, whatever. All the time. Every 15-30-45 minutes I check the fridge. And I can't help it. It's not hunger. It's not the taste itself. It's the act of eating. Act of having something down my throat. While I can resist it on irregular basis every now and then, I can't cancel the actual act of habit just like this. And man, this is horrible. Now I know how it is to not being able to "just refuse it and that's it". Luckily, I consume lots more than average person(physical work, hobbies, conscious effort) so I can control my weight at least. But I am hooked on eating. Habitual eater, no way to deny it.
nisa 14y ago
It appears to be not so easy: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-design/201108/willpower-is-not-resource http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-design/201108/willp...
- rrmm 14y ago
  I hope a lot more research is put into this subject to find out. It's something that can greatly improve people's lives. More effort thus far has been put into figuring out how to overcome people's willpower and induce them to make poor decisions not in their own interests. On the bright side, most of the strategies to improve willpower will be effective regardless of which model is actually true.
- vidarh 14y ago
  From the article, it does appear to be so easy, if the article writer had not been intentionally obtuse and on purpose interpreted the "resource view" as significantly stricter than what he later admits the proponents of it actually intends it. I found myself seeing example after example in that article and thinking I didn't see the purported problem, until I came to that bit at the end and realized that the author was knowingly presenting the examples in the context of a version of the "resource view" that I've not seen anyone argue for.
jasonkolb 14y ago
I have definitely noticed this effect after prolonged bouts of intense coding. There comes a point when the tank is just empty, and I might as well stop because I'll mostly just sit there and stare at the screen. I'm definitely more likely to succumb to easy but bad choices such as fast food at those times too. A 10 minute nap seems to reset me though, which is cool. I try to take one after completing a good sized chunk of work so I'll be capable of completing another one or two in the same day.
iglookid 14y ago
Excellent article on this topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fro...

155 points by diego 14y ago

It seems trivial, but last year there were related findings with very real consequences: "Judges are more lenient after taking a break, study finds. Prisoners are more likely to be granted parole early in the day or after a break such as lunch, according to researchers" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/apr/11/judges-lenient-break http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/apr/11/judges-lenient-bre...) Here is the actual paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/108/17/6889 http://www.pnas.org/content/108/17/6889

jwilliams 14y ago

How generalizable is this outside food? There was the cheating example, but that felt a bit more abstract than the other examples. I wonder if a taxed mind simply makes us craze glucose to keep it powered. Either way, I think most people could associate with this - if I'm stressed I'll figure I deserve whatever treat. I think part of the problem is the effort and reward aren't linked at all. If I need to push on something - I try to build the reward in - e.g. Big week of work and I'll buy an LP, or go out, whatever. Then I feel less inclined to grab something unhealthy "cos I deserve it".

verroq 14y ago

Another take on this: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/ http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/

acgourley 14y ago

Understanding ego depletion and willpower are incredibly important skills for any knowledge worker. A book like http://www.amazon.com/The-Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Matters/dp/1583334386 http://www.amazon.com/The-Willpower-Instinct-Self-Control-Ma... will help a programmer perform better work than a book on compilers.

lpolovets 14y ago
I read the book a few months ago and thought it was excellent. If anyone is interested, I took extensive notes (warning, they kind of spoil reading the book, which I think is very much worth reading): http://leopolovets.com/blog/2011/10/23/book-notes-on-willpower/ http://leopolovets.com/blog/2011/10/23/book-notes-on-willpow...
- rrmm 14y ago
  good set of notes, thanks.
- emini_guy 14y ago
  Useful notes, thanks.
- andyjsong 14y ago
  > Zeigarnik effect: uncompleted tasks and unmet goals tend to pop into one’s mind. Once the task is completed and the goal is reached, however, this stream of reminders comes to a stop. For example, if you listen to a song, your mind moves on; if you listen to a song that’s abruptly cut off in the middle, your mind will continue inserting bits and pieces of the song into your stream of thoughts, reminding you that you’re not “done” listening. Interesting, I wonder if this is the same as when you have a song stuck (looping) in your head. I've been told that listening to the whole song will make it unstuck.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    My observations confirm both of these assertions. Leaving a song (I was semi-actively listening to) unfinished will make it stuck in my head, finishing it will remove it.
  - emini_guy 14y ago
    Did not know that it was named after someone. A very familiar effect that most have probably encountered in one way or another.
- 14y ago

rdtsc 14y ago

Does this explain why many crappy infomercials are airing late night on TV. By that point people have depleted their willpower and will just buy any junk that is shown to them?

andreasvc 14y ago
No, that just happens to be the time when the networks don't have any programming, which they sell for a much more reasonable price than prime time commercials.
- bgilroy26 14y ago
  These two conditions work together

gwern 14y ago

But then again: http://lesswrong.com/lw/2y2/willpower_not_a_limited_resource/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/2y2/willpower_not_a_limited_resource...

rrmm 14y ago
From scanning that paper, I'm guessing that talking about willpower as a limited resource causes those in that group to assume that willpower is not only limited but small and about to run out as well. So for example, if one were to talk about sunlight as being a limited resource (which it is), it carries the implication that that limit is close enough to worry about. People's attention is drawn to the idea that they will run out of willpower. The first time they start to experience depletion, they give up, because they assume they've run out. It would be interesting to repeat the experiment, but tell the participants that in addition to the normal amount of willpower, they also have a secondary reserve which, with a little more effort, they can tap into to double or triple their performance.

smartkids 14y ago

Sounds more like energy depletion that "ego depletion". The more stress the person is undergoing the more energy is drained. Isn't this obvious? I thought Ariely was known for brilliant insights on human behaviour. Maybe he's become a dieting guru? That's where the money is? People overeat when they're stressed. Everyone knows that. But why? I've sometimes thought it's because overeating is like an opiate. Think about how you feel after a big meal. The blood rushes to your stomach, you might even feel sleepy and it's much more difficult to "get stressed" than it is on an empty stomach.

zxcdw 14y ago
When you're stressed your blood's glucose levels get depleted which weakens your ability for self-control. Once you give in, especially when you are tired and exhausted, it's easier to go all "fuck this, imma eat all I can for now and eat better later on!". Of course, eating increases the glucose level of your blood and afterwards you feel kind of bad about it and the whole idea of giving in starts to feel stupid - "I could've sticked to my promise", "It was just stupid, I should have been stronger". There's also the fact that habitual snacking and eating "just a bit... ...all the time" grows 1) a mental habit to the act of eating 2) physical dependency to the act of having glucose levels high 3) mental and physical dependency on the good experience(smell and taste). I used to be a person who ate once a day(lunch), and perhaps ate a fruit(banana or an apple) a few times a week to supplement. Back then I really pitied people who couldn't control their weight. To me it was outright laughable that someone simply could not refuse the sweets, pastries, soft drinks, ... because for me they were never even an option I considered. These days though, while I am not obese(although I've gained a lot of weigh which I know I should get rid of) I've realized that I've became a habitual eater. I eat constantly, all the time. Small snacks, soft drinks, whatever. All the time. Every 15-30-45 minutes I check the fridge. And I can't help it. It's not hunger. It's not the taste itself. It's the act of eating. Act of having something down my throat. While I can resist it on irregular basis every now and then, I can't cancel the actual act of habit just like this. And man, this is horrible. Now I know how it is to not being able to "just refuse it and that's it". Luckily, I consume lots more than average person(physical work, hobbies, conscious effort) so I can control my weight at least. But I am hooked on eating. Habitual eater, no way to deny it.

nisa 14y ago

It appears to be not so easy: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-design/201108/willpower-is-not-resource http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mind-design/201108/willp...

rrmm 14y ago
I hope a lot more research is put into this subject to find out. It's something that can greatly improve people's lives. More effort thus far has been put into figuring out how to overcome people's willpower and induce them to make poor decisions not in their own interests. On the bright side, most of the strategies to improve willpower will be effective regardless of which model is actually true.
vidarh 14y ago
From the article, it does appear to be so easy, if the article writer had not been intentionally obtuse and on purpose interpreted the "resource view" as significantly stricter than what he later admits the proponents of it actually intends it. I found myself seeing example after example in that article and thinking I didn't see the purported problem, until I came to that bit at the end and realized that the author was knowingly presenting the examples in the context of a version of the "resource view" that I've not seen anyone argue for.

jasonkolb 14y ago

I have definitely noticed this effect after prolonged bouts of intense coding. There comes a point when the tank is just empty, and I might as well stop because I'll mostly just sit there and stare at the screen. I'm definitely more likely to succumb to easy but bad choices such as fast food at those times too. A 10 minute nap seems to reset me though, which is cool. I try to take one after completing a good sized chunk of work so I'll be capable of completing another one or two in the same day.

iglookid 14y ago

Excellent article on this topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-fro...