7 ms·

This is just too great. I think more people should bike, but helmets are important.

by speek 18y ago

markessien 18y ago
Helmets are not important. If you can't take a little more risk, then drive a car. If you want to be completely safe, you could wear a big padded suit and ride with that, what do you think of that suggestion?
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Why can't you ride a bike and reduce your risk? How hard is it to put on a helmet? This logic is like people who drive without their seat belts saying "if you can't take a little more risk, then drive an armored Humvee."
  - divia 18y ago
    Unfortunately, it's not obvious that it's safer to wear a helmet. http://www.bhsi.org/walkerstudy.htm http://www.bhsi.org/walkerstudy.htm "We know helmets are useful in low-speed falls, and so definitely good for children, but whether they offer any real protection to somebody struck by a car is very controversial. "Either way, this study suggests wearing a helmet might make a collision more likely in the first place," he added.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      No, I'd say it's still pretty obvious. Without knowing what percentage of accidents are from car strikes, the latter may not matter. From what I've read, in most city conditions, you're far more likely to get hit by someone opening their door, or bump into something when avoiding people or slow moving cars. In both cases a helmet is pretty helpful. Maybe someone should design a helmet that looks like it's not a helmet somehow. Maybe it's disguised as a beehive hairdo.
      - divia 18y ago
        Well, I bet you're right that the former type of accident is more common, but the latter is almost certainly more dangerous when it happens. I do agree that helmets that don't look like helmets would be ideal.
      - helveticaman 18y ago
        I've got it: A sombrero helmet! I'm going to be rich!
        Xichekolas 18y ago
        Actually you might be. Properly designed it'd keep you somewhat dry in light rain, which would be a boon for urban bikers.
      - raleec 18y ago
        already done... http://www.yakkay.com/ http://www.yakkay.com/ well, not a hairdo, but definitely not a helmet.
    - potatolicious 18y ago
      Hmm... Okay... So your logic for not wearing a helmet is as such: - It helps in low-speed falls and accidents. - It may or may not help in high-speed accidents, but doesn't hurt. Remind me again why I wouldn't wear one? I've seen/heard of plenty of cyclists who get into trouble, and few have been hit by a car going full-speed. Most bike accidents that I've seen are relatively low-speed.
      - divia 18y ago
        No, the logic is that it helps in low-speed falls and accidents, but it makes drivers more likely to hit you and doesn't really help much if do. So maybe it's better to wear a helmet--I'm have to look at the data more. But it doesn't seem obvious what the answer is. Here's a statistic: 700 bicyclists died on US roads in 2007. Over 90 percent died in crashes with motor vehicles. http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
        potatolicious 18y ago
        What sorts of crashes though? There's getting hit by a car going at 50mph (goodbye world) versus, say, clipping a car door as it opens and going over your handlebars. In the former your survivability is suspect even with protective gear, in the second I can see a helmet come into real use.
      - markessien 18y ago
        I'll tell you why I won't wear a helmet: - I've got big hair. If I wear a helment, I have to fix my hair when I arrive wherever I want to be. This implies that if I had to wear a helmet I just would not use my bike The risk is not relevant to me. It's risky to travel to egypt, I'd still do it. It's risky to walk alone in a dark street in a dangerous part of town - I'd still do it. Why do I do it? Because staying safe is great when it does not directly affect my lifestyle or my fun at life - and wearing a helmet has a very direct consequence - it makes it almost impossible for me to ride a bike anywhere important. I can't always arrive and go look for a mirror to fix my hair. Wearing a seat belt of a car on the other hand does not have that consequence. A seat belt has no cost, but a helmet has a heavy price.
  - jodrellblank 18y ago
    It's also not obvious that helmets are a universal help in another way: By design, bicycle helmets are only effective only at very low speeds (< 14mph). Any deviation from this and a bicycle helmet can actually increase the severity of injury [ref]. For example, an off-center impact on the oblong surface of a helmet or having the air vents catch on something can violently twist the head and neck, leading to a potentially fatal neck injury (pp. 173-174, The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst). Recent research on brain injury adds further confusion, suggesting that the major causes of permanent intellectual disablement and death may well be torsional forces leading to diffuse axonal injury, a form of injury which helmets cannot mitigate (The efficacy of bicycle helmets against brain injury, Curnow, WJ. 2003. Accident Analysis and Prevention: 2003,35:287-292). - http://www.lobv.org/15reasons.html http://www.lobv.org/15reasons.html This isn't the first place I've seen that claim, the site I was looking for had brain scan images and such as well, I think.
  - jodrellblank 18y ago
    Also, why should one be looked down upon for not always choosing the safety option? There are costs to wearing a helmet as well. You can argue that they aren't worth it, but you can't dismiss them as non-existant and pretend it's merely about "how hard it is to put on a helmet". Your head will get sweatier even if the helmet has vents, so your hair will end up less presentable at the other end of any journey of length. You need to carry a helmet around with you wherever you are going since you can't lock it up outside and trust that it will not be damaged. You need to be careful with it, since they are fairly delicate and prone to damage that isn't obvious - no stuffing it in a bag and throwing the bag around carelessly. You need to own one - shop for one, find a fitting one, have somewhere to keep it which isn't annoying to get while getting your bike out or annoying to put away, change it every few years. (Some people) take care while moving around with it on - it makes your head unusually bigger so you're more likely to bash it on doorways/cupboards/other furniture, and if bashed they usually recommend replacing them.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      They're looked down upon naturally. Evolution ensures that the "goal" (and I use that word loosely, but you get what I mean) of a species is to replicate, and in order to replicate, one must survive, thus survival is generally thought of as one's primary ambition. Consciously deciding not to ensure your own survival is aberrant behavior.
      - jodrellblank 18y ago
        Consciously deciding not to ensure your own survival is aberrant behavior. So everyone who chooses a job they need to drive to instead of a local lower-paying job is aberrant? Everyone who chooses a car for looks instead of safety rating? Everyone who goes out without a first aid kit? Everyone who eats barbecued food known to be higher in carcinogens? Everyone who works with power tools? Everyone who walks by a main road when there's a 10-mile longer route away from traffic instead? (These are the sorts of decisions along the intensity of wearing or not wearing a bike helmet). Guy-risks-self-saves-life-becomes-hero-wins-girl is a very common story line. Guy-is-coward-wins-girl less so. Hmm.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - jules 18y ago
    Why don't you wear a helmet when you walk? Exactly the reason why we don't wear helmets on a bike.
    - joeyo 18y ago
      If you walked in traffic, it might start to make sense to wear a helmet...
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      I don't walk in roads where cars drive. Also, I've never hit a pothole when walking, or been sent flying by someone opening a car door at an inopportune time.
      - gravitycop 18y ago
        Do you walk where there could be ice? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(nutritionist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(nutritionist) On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma"
        mattmaroon 18y ago
        Nope. If it's cold enough for ice, I keep my ass inside.
      - jules 18y ago
        I don't bike where cars drive either (except to cross other roads). Seperate bikeways.
    - tkhggauwfawvyk 18y ago
      Supposedly more drivers than cyclists are killed by head injuries - so you should actually make drivers wear cycle helmets.
- Hates_ 18y ago
  I'd say they are pretty important when it comes to protecting one's own noggin'. I was knocked off my bike twice last year (once by a careless pedestrian and the other by a careless cyclist) and both times my helmet prevented me from suffering potentially bad blows to the head.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    Right. That's why I'm opposed to helmet laws. Any noggin' not intelligent enough to protect itself is better off exposed.
    - joeyo 18y ago
      What about for children?
      - mattmaroon 18y ago
        That I'm ok with. I don't think many people have ever been opposed to that.
- fallentimes 18y ago
  I think it's Sumo Suit time!
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    There's a viral video in the making.
SwellJoe 18y ago
On the helmet issue I'm ambivalent. There was a study a while back that indicated that drivers drive more aggressively around cyclists wearing helmets...giving them 6 inches to a foot less space on the road. I imagine this is probably less pronounced in places where there are lots of cyclists, as I suspect the brain finds a regular niche for them rather than analyzing each cyclist as a new event. I would think it would take more brain power to make the "Wearing a helmet?" assessment each time and that it would eventually be optimized away by drivers that deal with cyclists every day. In SF, for example, I've found that drivers have no hesitation in driving 6 inches away from me and my bike...so I think they're only giving me the "wearing a helmet" margin, no matter what. I'd obviously rather the niche go the other direction, and drivers would give every cyclist a reasonable amount of space on the road, but that doesn't seem to be what happens. I'm probably not going to convince drivers in Mountain View to respect pedestrians in cross-walks either.
- jules 18y ago
  OTOH suppose a driver has a cyclist on his right and another cyclist on his left, and only the right one is wearing a helmet...better not to wear a helmet in that case I think.
- menloparkbum 18y ago
  The type of bicycles most popular in America all have a very forward-leaning riding position, compared to Dutch bikes. If you get into a crash at speed there is a good chance you are going to be pitched over the handlebars. A good friend of my brother was in a coma for 3 months after crashing into another bicyclist, flying over the handlebars and landing on his head. An ex girlfriend had the same sort of crash, but she had a helmet on and managed to avoid brain damage. On a Dutch style bicycle, a headfirst over the handlebars crash is nearly impossible because the riding position is completely upright, and laid back over the rear wheel. Helmet necessity seems like more of a factor for the type of bike you are riding vs. cars. In all the cases where I've seen bike/car accidents, the person was wearing a helmet, and they were dead anyway.
laut 18y ago
I don't think helmets are important enough for me to wear one. Luckily I don't live in the "land of the free" (lol) so I can ride a bicycle without a helmet without the police punishing me for it. Why is it anyones business if you wear a helmet except for the cyclist him/herself? I come from Denmark and used to live there. The traffic culture is better for biking there. I live in South America now and only feel comfortable biking on the few dedicated bike lanes, that are separated from car/motorcycle traffic. I also lived in Portland, OR, USA for a while, but the traffic culture and the roads aren't as good for biking there either. If I think the conditions are dangerous I'd rather not ride a bike at all than wear a helmet and pretend it makes me safe. A UK study suggest drivers are less careful about not hitting cyclists with helmets. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1528621/Wearing-a-helmet-puts-you-at-greater-risk-cyclists-warned.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1528621/Wearing-a-helmet-put...
- kragen 18y ago
  What part of South America do you live in? Your description could fit biking here in Buenos Aires.
  - laut 18y ago
    Cool. It's not that far from there: Montevideo. The rambla is pretty much the only place I bicycle in Montevideo.
    - kragen 18y ago
      Aha, cool. We have guests visiting from Montevideo this weekend.
zaius 18y ago
I rode in Denmark and never wore a helmet. I now ride in SF and always wear a helmet. My justification is that I'm shit scared of being hit by a car here - a problem I didn't have there. Once cyclists reach a critical mass, I imagine that motorists become accustomed to it and accidents with cars becomes less of a problem. Whether a helmet actually helps in those cases is another issue, but at least it makes my mom happy :)
fizx 18y ago
Helmets are important in certain contexts. I always wear a helmet when riding my road bike. I'm going between 15-40 mph, and in the higher half of the range, I'd really appreciate the helmet in the crash. If I'm being passed by cars going 40+, I assume I'll also appreciate the helmet if one of them hits me. In the city, when I know that my max speed will be ~17mph and a cars max speed will be ~25mph, I consider helmets optional.

This is just too great. I think more people should bike, but helmets are important.

by speek 18y ago

This is just too great. I think more people should bike, but helmets are important.

Helmets are not important. If you can't take a little more risk, then drive a car. If you want to be completely safe, you could wear a big padded suit and ride with that, what do you think of that suggestion?

mattmaroon 18y ago
Why can't you ride a bike and reduce your risk? How hard is it to put on a helmet? This logic is like people who drive without their seat belts saying "if you can't take a little more risk, then drive an armored Humvee."
- divia 18y ago
  Unfortunately, it's not obvious that it's safer to wear a helmet. http://www.bhsi.org/walkerstudy.htm http://www.bhsi.org/walkerstudy.htm "We know helmets are useful in low-speed falls, and so definitely good for children, but whether they offer any real protection to somebody struck by a car is very controversial. "Either way, this study suggests wearing a helmet might make a collision more likely in the first place," he added.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    No, I'd say it's still pretty obvious. Without knowing what percentage of accidents are from car strikes, the latter may not matter. From what I've read, in most city conditions, you're far more likely to get hit by someone opening their door, or bump into something when avoiding people or slow moving cars. In both cases a helmet is pretty helpful. Maybe someone should design a helmet that looks like it's not a helmet somehow. Maybe it's disguised as a beehive hairdo.
    - divia 18y ago
      Well, I bet you're right that the former type of accident is more common, but the latter is almost certainly more dangerous when it happens. I do agree that helmets that don't look like helmets would be ideal.
    - helveticaman 18y ago
      I've got it: A sombrero helmet! I'm going to be rich!
      - Xichekolas 18y ago
        Actually you might be. Properly designed it'd keep you somewhat dry in light rain, which would be a boon for urban bikers.
    - raleec 18y ago
      already done... http://www.yakkay.com/ http://www.yakkay.com/ well, not a hairdo, but definitely not a helmet.
  - potatolicious 18y ago
    Hmm... Okay... So your logic for not wearing a helmet is as such: - It helps in low-speed falls and accidents. - It may or may not help in high-speed accidents, but doesn't hurt. Remind me again why I wouldn't wear one? I've seen/heard of plenty of cyclists who get into trouble, and few have been hit by a car going full-speed. Most bike accidents that I've seen are relatively low-speed.
    - divia 18y ago
      No, the logic is that it helps in low-speed falls and accidents, but it makes drivers more likely to hit you and doesn't really help much if do. So maybe it's better to wear a helmet--I'm have to look at the data more. But it doesn't seem obvious what the answer is. Here's a statistic: 700 bicyclists died on US roads in 2007. Over 90 percent died in crashes with motor vehicles. http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm
      - potatolicious 18y ago
        What sorts of crashes though? There's getting hit by a car going at 50mph (goodbye world) versus, say, clipping a car door as it opens and going over your handlebars. In the former your survivability is suspect even with protective gear, in the second I can see a helmet come into real use.
    - markessien 18y ago
      I'll tell you why I won't wear a helmet: - I've got big hair. If I wear a helment, I have to fix my hair when I arrive wherever I want to be. This implies that if I had to wear a helmet I just would not use my bike The risk is not relevant to me. It's risky to travel to egypt, I'd still do it. It's risky to walk alone in a dark street in a dangerous part of town - I'd still do it. Why do I do it? Because staying safe is great when it does not directly affect my lifestyle or my fun at life - and wearing a helmet has a very direct consequence - it makes it almost impossible for me to ride a bike anywhere important. I can't always arrive and go look for a mirror to fix my hair. Wearing a seat belt of a car on the other hand does not have that consequence. A seat belt has no cost, but a helmet has a heavy price.
- jodrellblank 18y ago
  It's also not obvious that helmets are a universal help in another way: By design, bicycle helmets are only effective only at very low speeds (< 14mph). Any deviation from this and a bicycle helmet can actually increase the severity of injury [ref]. For example, an off-center impact on the oblong surface of a helmet or having the air vents catch on something can violently twist the head and neck, leading to a potentially fatal neck injury (pp. 173-174, The Art of Urban Cycling by Robert Hurst). Recent research on brain injury adds further confusion, suggesting that the major causes of permanent intellectual disablement and death may well be torsional forces leading to diffuse axonal injury, a form of injury which helmets cannot mitigate (The efficacy of bicycle helmets against brain injury, Curnow, WJ. 2003. Accident Analysis and Prevention: 2003,35:287-292). - http://www.lobv.org/15reasons.html http://www.lobv.org/15reasons.html This isn't the first place I've seen that claim, the site I was looking for had brain scan images and such as well, I think.
- jodrellblank 18y ago
  Also, why should one be looked down upon for not always choosing the safety option? There are costs to wearing a helmet as well. You can argue that they aren't worth it, but you can't dismiss them as non-existant and pretend it's merely about "how hard it is to put on a helmet". Your head will get sweatier even if the helmet has vents, so your hair will end up less presentable at the other end of any journey of length. You need to carry a helmet around with you wherever you are going since you can't lock it up outside and trust that it will not be damaged. You need to be careful with it, since they are fairly delicate and prone to damage that isn't obvious - no stuffing it in a bag and throwing the bag around carelessly. You need to own one - shop for one, find a fitting one, have somewhere to keep it which isn't annoying to get while getting your bike out or annoying to put away, change it every few years. (Some people) take care while moving around with it on - it makes your head unusually bigger so you're more likely to bash it on doorways/cupboards/other furniture, and if bashed they usually recommend replacing them.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    They're looked down upon naturally. Evolution ensures that the "goal" (and I use that word loosely, but you get what I mean) of a species is to replicate, and in order to replicate, one must survive, thus survival is generally thought of as one's primary ambition. Consciously deciding not to ensure your own survival is aberrant behavior.
    - jodrellblank 18y ago
      Consciously deciding not to ensure your own survival is aberrant behavior. So everyone who chooses a job they need to drive to instead of a local lower-paying job is aberrant? Everyone who chooses a car for looks instead of safety rating? Everyone who goes out without a first aid kit? Everyone who eats barbecued food known to be higher in carcinogens? Everyone who works with power tools? Everyone who walks by a main road when there's a 10-mile longer route away from traffic instead? (These are the sorts of decisions along the intensity of wearing or not wearing a bike helmet). Guy-risks-self-saves-life-becomes-hero-wins-girl is a very common story line. Guy-is-coward-wins-girl less so. Hmm.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- jules 18y ago
  Why don't you wear a helmet when you walk? Exactly the reason why we don't wear helmets on a bike.
  - joeyo 18y ago
    If you walked in traffic, it might start to make sense to wear a helmet...
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I don't walk in roads where cars drive. Also, I've never hit a pothole when walking, or been sent flying by someone opening a car door at an inopportune time.
    - gravitycop 18y ago
      Do you walk where there could be ice? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(nutritionist) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_(nutritionist) On April 8, 2003, at age 72, Dr. Atkins slipped on the ice while walking to work, hitting his head and causing bleeding around his brain. He lost consciousness on the way to the hospital, where he spent two weeks in intensive care. His death certificate states that the cause of death was "blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma"
      - mattmaroon 18y ago
        Nope. If it's cold enough for ice, I keep my ass inside.
    - jules 18y ago
      I don't bike where cars drive either (except to cross other roads). Seperate bikeways.
  - tkhggauwfawvyk 18y ago
    Supposedly more drivers than cyclists are killed by head injuries - so you should actually make drivers wear cycle helmets.
Hates_ 18y ago
I'd say they are pretty important when it comes to protecting one's own noggin'. I was knocked off my bike twice last year (once by a careless pedestrian and the other by a careless cyclist) and both times my helmet prevented me from suffering potentially bad blows to the head.
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  Right. That's why I'm opposed to helmet laws. Any noggin' not intelligent enough to protect itself is better off exposed.
  - joeyo 18y ago
    What about for children?
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      That I'm ok with. I don't think many people have ever been opposed to that.
fallentimes 18y ago
I think it's Sumo Suit time!
- mattmaroon 18y ago
  There's a viral video in the making.

SwellJoe 18y ago

On the helmet issue I'm ambivalent. There was a study a while back that indicated that drivers drive more aggressively around cyclists wearing helmets...giving them 6 inches to a foot less space on the road. I imagine this is probably less pronounced in places where there are lots of cyclists, as I suspect the brain finds a regular niche for them rather than analyzing each cyclist as a new event. I would think it would take more brain power to make the "Wearing a helmet?" assessment each time and that it would eventually be optimized away by drivers that deal with cyclists every day. In SF, for example, I've found that drivers have no hesitation in driving 6 inches away from me and my bike...so I think they're only giving me the "wearing a helmet" margin, no matter what. I'd obviously rather the niche go the other direction, and drivers would give every cyclist a reasonable amount of space on the road, but that doesn't seem to be what happens. I'm probably not going to convince drivers in Mountain View to respect pedestrians in cross-walks either.

jules 18y ago
OTOH suppose a driver has a cyclist on his right and another cyclist on his left, and only the right one is wearing a helmet...better not to wear a helmet in that case I think.
menloparkbum 18y ago
The type of bicycles most popular in America all have a very forward-leaning riding position, compared to Dutch bikes. If you get into a crash at speed there is a good chance you are going to be pitched over the handlebars. A good friend of my brother was in a coma for 3 months after crashing into another bicyclist, flying over the handlebars and landing on his head. An ex girlfriend had the same sort of crash, but she had a helmet on and managed to avoid brain damage. On a Dutch style bicycle, a headfirst over the handlebars crash is nearly impossible because the riding position is completely upright, and laid back over the rear wheel. Helmet necessity seems like more of a factor for the type of bike you are riding vs. cars. In all the cases where I've seen bike/car accidents, the person was wearing a helmet, and they were dead anyway.

laut 18y ago

I don't think helmets are important enough for me to wear one. Luckily I don't live in the "land of the free" (lol) so I can ride a bicycle without a helmet without the police punishing me for it. Why is it anyones business if you wear a helmet except for the cyclist him/herself? I come from Denmark and used to live there. The traffic culture is better for biking there. I live in South America now and only feel comfortable biking on the few dedicated bike lanes, that are separated from car/motorcycle traffic. I also lived in Portland, OR, USA for a while, but the traffic culture and the roads aren't as good for biking there either. If I think the conditions are dangerous I'd rather not ride a bike at all than wear a helmet and pretend it makes me safe. A UK study suggest drivers are less careful about not hitting cyclists with helmets. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1528621/Wearing-a-helmet-puts-you-at-greater-risk-cyclists-warned.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1528621/Wearing-a-helmet-put...

kragen 18y ago
What part of South America do you live in? Your description could fit biking here in Buenos Aires.
- laut 18y ago
  Cool. It's not that far from there: Montevideo. The rambla is pretty much the only place I bicycle in Montevideo.
  - kragen 18y ago
    Aha, cool. We have guests visiting from Montevideo this weekend.

zaius 18y ago

I rode in Denmark and never wore a helmet. I now ride in SF and always wear a helmet. My justification is that I'm shit scared of being hit by a car here - a problem I didn't have there. Once cyclists reach a critical mass, I imagine that motorists become accustomed to it and accidents with cars becomes less of a problem. Whether a helmet actually helps in those cases is another issue, but at least it makes my mom happy :)

fizx 18y ago

Helmets are important in certain contexts. I always wear a helmet when riding my road bike. I'm going between 15-40 mph, and in the higher half of the range, I'd really appreciate the helmet in the crash. If I'm being passed by cars going 40+, I assume I'll also appreciate the helmet if one of them hits me. In the city, when I know that my max speed will be ~17mph and a cars max speed will be ~25mph, I consider helmets optional.