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Toyota, Lexus, Subaru, Honda. Not sure if Hyundai & Kia are quite as reliable, but if not it's on them because they have some of the best warranties in the ind

• SecretDreams 1y ago
  The two main Achilles Heels of Hyundai/Kia are their ICE Engines and their EV ICCUs. Google reliability for both and proceed accordingly. They're good about replacing/fixing both issues when they come up, and normally have extended warranties, but they are critical components too and long lead times to fix. Outside of those issues, which don't happen on all vehicles, I view the brand as pretty rock solid. I'm impressed by how quickly they iterate, their styling, and their NVH attributes. Their pricing has crept up a bit, but still not terrible.
  • bityard 1y ago
    I recently got rid of a 2016 Kia Sonata with a severe (and getting worse) oil burning issue. It was well under 100k miles. We really liked the car otherwise overall. Great price, seemed to be made well, easy to work on. The extended warranty on these only applies if you actually blow up engine, which I wasn't willing to do deliberately because I have scruples. (And according to forum threads, at the time this happened to this us, stealerships were putting people on a 1-2 year waitlist for remanufactured engines, or straight-up totalling their vehicles and giving them "market value" for the car, and these models had awful resale value exactly due to these problems.)
    • auxym 1y ago
      Do you mean Hyundai Sonata, or another Kia model?
      • bityard 1y ago
        Sorry, I meant Kia Sorento. I guess my brain is already actively trying to forget it.
    • SecretDreams 1y ago
      Lol, I think I did the exact same thing with a Tucson. Similar mileage, too. Did you have the 2l or 2.4l engine? I had oil burning and reduced power. Dealer actually said they'd replace the engine... After it actually died. No shot I'm going to drive my car w/ my fam just waiting for it to die. I did absolutely love the vehicle otherwise, so that was a real bummer.
    • Ancapistani 1y ago
      We had a 2015 Sorento with a similar issue. Kia said the oil burn rate was within specs and refused to act. It died at 105k, and they refused to do anything about it, even with documentation of the oil burn rate going back to 75k miles. We replaced the engine on our own dime, and it took me three weeks to find a single engine that was compatible. That said, a few months ago my daughter was t-boned in it by a driving going 60+ MPH. The impact was directly on the driver’s door. She not only survived, but did so with only superficial facial cuts and some longer-term, back pain. I can’t be too hard on a car that saved my daughter’s life.
  • dzhiurgis 1y ago
    Honorable mention - Hyundai Kona EV managed to build a reduction gear that blows around 100k km - just after warranty ends and they specifically recommend not changing the gear oil.
    • whatevaa 1y ago
      They managed to make an unreliable EV. Great kob, one of the few remaining gear in drivetrain and you managed to fuck that up. Maybe it's on purpose...
  • sathackr 1y ago
    If you have a problem they take 4 weeks to fix it all while you're paying $50+/day for a rental car that they will fight you tooth and nail on reimbursing. One local dealer refused to honor under warranty the work another dealer did. If you have any damage (even minor cosmetic) they will blame that on your issues regardless of relativity. (I have a Hyundai that's had the ICCU replaced once, the ABS IEB twice, and the low-voltage battery 3 times, two of the 3 times on my dime. All on a less than 3-year-old car with less than 100k miles) The company has been miserable to deal with compared to my past experiences with other brands.
    • steveBK123 1y ago
      Everything I've heard of their dealers & service departments are what keep me away from their EVs. On the one hand, performance/looks/fun factor to price, they are a pretty good value. On the other hand, if I were to spend $70k on an Ioniq 5N, I would have expectations of service which they are clearly not going to meet. So at that pricing level, its back to BMW EVs.
      • sathackr 1y ago
        fwiw I've heard from others that their experience with Kia has been much better. That seems hard to believe since Kia is owned by Hyunday. I definitely expected more Hyundai when I bought the most expensive EV they had to offer at the highest trim level available.
        • steveBK123 1y ago
          Very interesting. I had considered the Genesis sub-brand if only for the separate dealers, though there are much fewer of them. On the plus side a lot of the Genesis vehicles seem like they slap every option the Germans make you pay $1000s each for into the base model, so decent value from that perspective. I've sat in their EV hatch thing the GV60 in showroom and was impressed by the base features set. I also had a decent length uber ride sitting in the back of their ICE sedan, either the G80 or G90 and it was a nice executive sedan. My backseat reclined, it had motorized shades, the air vents in the back were actually powerful, etc.
• PaulHoule 1y ago
  For a long time Consumer Reports has ranked cars as Japanese > American >> European, European cars have some luxury cachet but if you want a car that starts when you turn the key look elsewhere. American cars came a long way since the 1970s when they really were trash.
  • Marsymars 1y ago
    Consumer Reports currently has Audi and BMW ahead of any American manufacturer. Brand average reliability is tricky though, on their 100-point scale, their top manufacturer (Subaru) has models that range from 38-98. Looking at the model breakdown... I kinda suspect they don’t really have enough datapoints - VW’s reliability only includes 3 models (the Tiguan, ID.4 and TAOS) - Ford has a 25-point difference between the Escape and Maverick hybrids that share the same engine/powertrain (I can’t think of any reason why the Maverick would actually be notably more reliable than the Escape unless the PHEV escape is dragging down weighted reliability by that much over the mild hybrid), etc.
  • rich_sasha 1y ago
    "European" cars are not really a category. French/Italian/Spanish cars are very different from German/Volvo, and even these groupings are a stretch. Then you have Dacia too, and I have no idea where to even put it. Plus you have some luxury British cars, which are again veery different. In-group std is greater than between-group std.
    • Malakun 1y ago
      > Spanish cars are very different from German The only spanish car maker is SEAT and it's part of VAG group. SEAT are more expensive than Skoda, but cheaper than Audi. And using the country card with these automaker corporations is very tricky, because they have factories everywhere. You can buy an Audi made in Spain or a VW made in Slovakia.
    • burnerthrow008 1y ago
      In the USA (where Consumer Reports exists), we don’t have any French or Spanish brands. Italian brands are only exotics and couple near-luxury brands from Stellantis. To a USAian, “European Brand” means something from Germany or Scandinavia. If you mean a Ferrari or Lamborghini, you say that name.
• haunter 1y ago
  Acura too (Honda's premium brand)
• hedora 1y ago
  Our Kia is a deathtrap due to bad active safety assist software. It's also miserable to drive because of beeping, controls that cannot be seen by the driver, and a dozen other obvious problems. Supposedly Hyundai fixes such stuff before release, but I wouldn't risk it.
• prmph 1y ago
  Mazdas too. I find Toyota's suspensions and driving dynamics terrible. Mazda represents a perfect combination of good Japanese reliability and good handling dynamics. I also like that they still offer a proper automatic transmission in their cars (as opposed to the CVT epidemic in other makes), as well as naturally aspirated engine options (whereas many other makes only offer turbos now). The days of their collaboration with Ford are long gone, and with it their body durability problems. They still collaborate with Toyota though.
  • bityard 1y ago
    Maybe they are better now, but I had two Mazdas between about 2005 and 2015. They were fine for the most part, but their frames rusted out and had to be scrapped well before the rest of the car was worn out. They're not really suitable for long-term use in the midwestern/northeast US salt belt unless you're a high-roller who only leases cars.
    • prmph 1y ago
      That's what I meant, those problems have been solved in recent years. Their partnership with Ford ended by 2015 at the latest
    • sidewndr46 1y ago
      Isn't that basically all cars in the northeast?
      • bityard 1y ago
        Yes, but the Mazdas we had were worse than average. They were made of thinner gauge metal than I've seen on any other car (both frame and body panels) and I they didn't bother to add even a token amount of paint or other rust prevention.
  • butlike 1y ago
    Yessss. Happy to hear this. A Miata has been on the wishlist for a while now.
• formerly_proven 1y ago
  It's weird that Toyota cars are taking top spots in car breakdown statistics the last couple years. Hyundai & Kia have their EVs breakdown left and right with their ICCU failures, and spare parts seem to be in rather short supply (and a replaced ICCU can fail again). And their battery warranty is only 5 years / 100 km.
• 7ganam 1y ago
  I've owned my Hyundai Tucson for 5 years, and it hasn't had a single issue
• 01100011 1y ago
  Not so sure about Subaru. I love my Outback but it is also the only car I've ever owned which left me stranded twice due to two separate firmware issues. Both issues were known and Subaru failed to communicate them to me. I will probably go with Toyota for our next car despite loving the handling and comfort of our Subaru.
  • gilbetron 1y ago
    Yeah, we have an Outback as well (2017) and it, too, left us "stranded" (it was parked at home but failed when we really needed it) due to probably the same thing ? Ours drained the battery dead both times. We brought it in both times and had them look it over, both times they blamed us, saying we left a light on (we didn't). Then my wife remembered a recall notice concerning the electrical system, and suddenly they were able to fix the issue. Really put a dent in my trust with them. Great car otherwise. Well, the CVT isn't the best for driving. But the AWD and agility and snow handling is fantastic.
    • 01100011 1y ago
      Same year here. Actually the battery charging issue left us stranded a few times but only once in public. It was the faulty fuel gauge firmware that left us stranded on the side of the I-5 freeway in the middle of CA. The CVT sort of sucks. Mostly ok but we have a long lag between reverse and drive which causes the car to jerk forward if you try to accelerate before the forward motion starts. The turning radius is amazing though. My father in law is a Toyota mechanic and warned me to get rid of the car before 100k miles though as more recent subies are as reliable as they used to be.
      • gilbetron 1y ago
        Good to know about more recent subies, although ... how do you feel about the new Outback look? Personally, not a fan :(
        • 01100011 1y ago
• oxag3n 1y ago
  Was loyal Honda owner since my 1st one in 00s, my current two will be the last I own. Purchased brand new, multiple issues with body/chassis & HVAC in Pilot, electrical systems/motors in Oddy. The dealership tried to fix things and did it unprofessionally.
• hn_acc1 1y ago
  My Kia Stinger is 6 years old, ~45K miles, including some modifications, 8 HPDE track days, etc. It's had a few quirks that I've had to learn (don't switch from default driving mode to sport while driving in reverse and then quickly shifting to drive mode - it confuses the sensors. A restart solves the issue 100%). Sound system "enhanced" mode sometimes stops playing all sound - eventually it comes back, and turning off the enhanced mode always restores sound - but it sounds SO much better. Phantom presses on the center screen if there's a large temperature differential (screen heated up by the sun, A/C on in the car, for example). None critical to the basics. It's never been back to the dealer except for a free oil change at ~1K miles. Mainly because the reputation of Kia dealers is that it's hard to say whether you will be in worse shape if they deny or accept your warrantied repair. I mean, if the engine fails, sure, they can't make it any worse. But there are many stories of people getting a recall and the coolant system not properly bled, so the car overheats on the way home. Or a dealer refusing an obvious warranty repair for ridiculous reasons - only to try to sell you a non-warranty repair for the same problem, etc. I am driving my car as if there is no warranty, at this point. It's been a GREAT car to drive in most ways, but I don't expect Kia to come through and fix any drivetrain issue in the next few years / 55K miles, if needed.
• sandos 1y ago
  Kia's are sadly not that good, we had a Ceed with very obvious rust problems that was widespread. Re-painting did not help, it was the steel treatment that somehow wrecked the paint from underneath. Kias EVs are even more famour for troubles, just google for Kia ICCU. Even the XC90 competitor EV9 seems to have some trouble with this still.
• jmrm 1y ago
  Hyundai/Kia are fine in Diesel engines, electric power trains are giving plenty of problems, and their 2.5L petrol engines are incredibly bad. Outside that, they are cheap cars, and mine after 10 years have some paint chips even peeling.
• tarsinge 1y ago
  From what I’ve read, and what I get in the comments here, these too are plagued by electronics and software issues. I’m not sure this category of issues, especially software ones, are correctly taken into account in reliability scores. Ironically my current car (from 2010) doesn’t score too high in reliability, but not having a screen makes that whole class of problems go away. I hope my current car makes it so that I can entirely skip the current gen cars to hopefully the future one with these issues sorted out, including physical buttons.