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> .... if you want reliable quality. I'm saying this as a German, i strongly reject those accusations. Do not buy from VW group (and not from PSA/Stellantis (C
by blueflow 1y ago
> .... if you want reliable quality.
I'm saying this as a German, i strongly reject those accusations. Do not buy from VW group (and not from PSA/Stellantis (Citroen, Fiat, Opel etc brands), either).
- nicce 1y agoWhat reliable is left?
- hnuser123456 1y agoToyota
- tannhaeuser 1y agoIf you buy a Toyota ProAce van you get a Peugeot Expert aka Citroen Jumpy/Traveller aka the respective Fiat and Opel (and Vauxhall?) branded vehicles. It's a Volkswagen Transporter-sized van, not an Eurovan/minivan that still might be sold in EU only though.
- earthnail 1y agoBMW
- rectang 1y agoDon't say "reliable", say "opportunity for enshittification".
- DyslexicAtheist 1y agoif it has software it will be enshitted. sadly true
- rectang 1y agoI was a bit surprised to see the the "software" criteria in your reply, as I'd always thought of enshittification's inevitability as a capitalist phenomenon whereby a quality brand is wrung out for near term gains by management incentivized to get their cut before riding off into the sunset. But after reading up a bit, I've found that software platform lock-in was important in enshittification's original formulation — it's not just that quality goes to crap, but that users have nowhere else to go.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoThank you for that second paragraph. Really hate people throwing that word around without understanding what it actually means. Was about to get inflamed. Makes you wonder how open software car platform could look like and why nobody is making one.
- pmontra 1y agoProbably because if you and me would write one and install it on our cars it would void all certifications and make the car not legal to drive. That doesn't mean that manufacturers could not band together and make a common OS for cars, or a company in that market could not sell its software to everybody (like MS or Google) but I believe that manufactures don't want to completely commoditize cars and go the way of gas brands or smartphones. A car is 4 wheels, steering and brakes to me, so I don't care much about what I'm driving as long as it handles well and brakes strong, but that's not the case for most people so manufacturers want to add their own bells and whistles.
- FredPret 1y agoThat's a phenomenon that can be blamed on low-IQ or disengaged owners. Some companies have owners that are locked in, who know where the true value of their business lies (usually this involves a high quality product), and holds the management to account to keep the golden-egg-laying goose alive. But other companies are owned by index funds, ETFs, and/or dumb people who don't know or care how things work. These have no defense against enshittifying. I've bought some products that are of almost egregiously high quality, and nearly 100% of the time there's family ownership, or it's still run by the founders.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- runako 1y agoToyota, Lexus, Subaru, Honda. Not sure if Hyundai & Kia are quite as reliable, but if not it's on them because they have some of the best warranties in the industry.
- SecretDreams 1y agoThe two main Achilles Heels of Hyundai/Kia are their ICE Engines and their EV ICCUs. Google reliability for both and proceed accordingly. They're good about replacing/fixing both issues when they come up, and normally have extended warranties, but they are critical components too and long lead times to fix. Outside of those issues, which don't happen on all vehicles, I view the brand as pretty rock solid. I'm impressed by how quickly they iterate, their styling, and their NVH attributes. Their pricing has crept up a bit, but still not terrible.
- bityard 1y agoI recently got rid of a 2016 Kia Sonata with a severe (and getting worse) oil burning issue. It was well under 100k miles. We really liked the car otherwise overall. Great price, seemed to be made well, easy to work on. The extended warranty on these only applies if you actually blow up engine, which I wasn't willing to do deliberately because I have scruples. (And according to forum threads, at the time this happened to this us, stealerships were putting people on a 1-2 year waitlist for remanufactured engines, or straight-up totalling their vehicles and giving them "market value" for the car, and these models had awful resale value exactly due to these problems.)
- DyslexicAtheist 1y agoidk but in addition to what was listed already stay away from: Land Rover, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Fiat ... all of them leave you stranded in the middle of the road
- haunter 1y agoAnything from Stellantis is a big no https://www.stellantis.com/en/brands https://www.stellantis.com/en/brands
- pesus 1y agoI'd add Mazda in there (post Ford involvement).
- slaw 1y ago> What reliable is left? Vehicles with 7 or more years of warranty. If a brand has a hype, but short warranty like Toyota, it is only a hype.
- protimewaster 1y agoI remember, some years back, the warranty period was actually almost inversely correlated with reliability. It seemed like the companies that were making unreliable cars were just hoping to get people onboard with long warranties. There's a great story on Reddit from years ago about the lifetime Kia warranty, and a car that went through something like 7 engines in 10 years.
- Bud 1y ago[dead]
- decimalenough 1y agoBelieve it or not, both the software and hardware on Chinese-made Teslas is rock solid. (With the notable and massive exception of Autopilot/FSD, but this is an optional feature.) The Model 3 has been ranked the most reliable EV in Australia: https://www.shopforcars.com.au/news/most-reliable-electric-cars-in-australia-in-2024/ https://www.shopforcars.com.au/news/most-reliable-electric-c... However, this is not the case for Teslas manufactured in the US, which is why Tesla's global reliability ratings are mediocre at best.
- burnerthrow008 1y agoIt should be noted that “autopilot” is the included driver assist feature and “FSD” is the optional extra cost feature.
- theyinwhy 1y agoMercedes
- theyinwhy 1y agoTo those downvoting my perfectly succinct answer to the question, I urge you to drive one of the newer Mercedes EVs. After my Tesla nightmare I moved on to Mercedes and it was night and day.
- worik 1y agoFor those of us who do not want a car more expensive than our house, is Mercedes an option?
- anonymousiam 1y agoThe EVs (from any mainstream manufacturer that began with ICE products) are all fairly immature. My AMG E53 (cabriolet) is a hybrid, and I can tolerate that. It gives me an extra 100+HP when I punch it, but I wonder how long the battery is going to last. The electric power plant adds more than 500lbs to the car, but the car still performs very well. (The car is five years old now.) I like that I can drive over 400 miles on a tank of gas, and I like that I have no trouble finding a gas station, and that it takes only a few minutes to fill the tank. I'm looking forward to the time when an EV can give me all of these things, and I'll eagerly purchase one when that happens. I bought this car after owning a high-end BMW. I was looking for a car that performs well, but is very reliable. It has been a great car, and it cost only 66% of the price that Vicken paid for his Volvo EX90.
- Bud 1y ago[dead]
- worik 1y agoJappanese electric cars have problems too. > While driving on Highway 13 (Montreal), the vehicle abruptly lost all throttle response This has happened twice with a Mk II Leaf for us. The second time the dealer charged me over $100 to say "Mēh! No idea what went wrong" Perhaps BYD? They seem to be getting it together. As an old and grey computer programmer I do not, absolutely do not want, a "software defined vehicle". My comrades and I are renowned for unreliable crappy consumer products, where car manufacturers in the ICE era developed remarkably reliable and performant vehicles. I really think electric cars need to be done differently, where the drive train is not dependant on my friends who "move fast and break things". My friends like these should be nowhere near automobiles.
- nicholasbraker 1y agoI have been driving VW for decades. Never had any issue apart from some Apple CarPlay snags. Drove Golf, Touran and Tuiguan Allspace. Always a pleasure.
- sandos 1y agoOur passat has been so much better than our previous Kia and Renault, at least. 10 years without any non-normal breakage, a water pump did break and for some reason that is considered normal. If thats all that breaks during this time I am happy enough. Japanese is maybe even better, but I just cant get over the styling.
- culopatin 1y agoThe headliner has come undone in every VW ive had and the DSG is great when great, and has… character otherwise. The aftermarket support is awesome and you’ll always find some nerd that knows all the quirks and how to fix them though. I work on my cars and while sometimes the engineering decisions are over complicated and you need all the specialized tools, some are clever and I appreciate them. Looking at getting a Golf R once our Prius gives me an excuse (just got rear ended and the thing doesn’t even chirp, squeak or complain, so I might be waiting for a while).