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This comment is a dire indictment of the state of capitalism from start to end.

by OtherShrezzing 1y ago

AlecSchueler 1y ago
Is it just me or has the tide of opinion on HN really shifted against capitalism in the past year?
- throwawayoldie 1y ago
  The average HN reader is growing older, and wiser.
  - eddythompson80 1y ago
    More likely just a reddit refugee problem. The "stupid capitalism" narrative is from reddit and is very /r/im14andthisisdeep
    - throwawayoldie 1y ago
      Mmm, no, pretty sure it's my answer.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  I thought it was really libertarian what I joined in 2010, it gradually became more diverse in viewpoint. 'Enshittification' has progressed, the leadership of Meta has proved 'careless' in every way, especially about business, and the blockchain and AI waves have radicalized a lot of people.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- OJFord 1y ago
  It's just the US-skew I think, Americans (cold war hangover perhaps?) seem to me to make much more of 'capitalism' as a concept that is common for people to have a binary opinion on; if you've noticed a recent change I'd suggest it's reaction against the current Trump presidency, making perhaps left/Democrat-leaning 'anti-capitalist' views more vocal. Just how it seems to me from the UK/Europe, obviously capitalist countries and actual socialism certainly a minority stance, but it's just not such a big deal at all. I don't even think they really mean 'capitalist' though, it's more like what would be framed here as 'tax mega corps more' or 'no more non-doms' or calls to block anti-competitive mergers. A debate baselined at the extreme of capitalism perhaps, whether there should be any controls at all, or everything left to the free market.
- Matumio 1y ago
  I don't think pointing out something that goes wrong under the current flavour of capitalism is the same as being against capitalism. Similarly, reporting a bad police officer doesn't really mean I'm against having a police, it can also mean that I want them to do a better job.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    No, certainly not, but individual instances can be seen as part of a larger trend.
- 9rx 1y ago
  Nah. "Capitalism" is simply losing its original meaning amid more lower quality comments. If you look closely, the earlier comment is really about the apparent failing of intellectual property laws (which are antithetical to capitalism!), not capitalism. In the olden days HN users would have taken care to make it clear that they were talking about IP laws, but now "capitalism" has come to be used as some kind of catch-all for all the ills seen around government. Most especially when it is a comment void of anything useful and is merely trying to tug on heart strings.
  - mlinhares 1y ago
    Capitalism suffers from the same problem as communism, its either everything is capitalism or nothing is capitalism. The frequent pattern is if it is good, its capitalism, if it is bad it isn't.
    - 9rx 1y ago
      That makes sense. Communism in its original sense is literally science fiction, but along the way, in an effort to tug on heart strings, communism also came to refer to rule under the Communist party. Which follows that (HN being American-centric), capitalism is being used to mean rule under the Republican party — which, especially in the past year, has seen growing negative sentiment. Another commenter basically said the same thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651323 But I maintain that is still a product of lower quality comments. In the HN days of yore, commenters put more effort in to speaking clearly (often to the point of pedantry, for better or worse) rather than trying to get readers' emotions all worked up.
  - mashygpig 1y ago
    I’m looking closely and I’m not seeing IP laws being relevant. Maybe regarding windows 11 keys? Can you elaborate? I think the claim isn’t totally inaccurate. Claiming that companies prioritize making products last just beyond return windows because that maximizes profits is a critique of capitalism IMO. Since capitalism is about profit (capital) being the dominant signal as far as I understand it. In my opinion, a lot of frustration about capitalism nowadays can be tied to Goodhart’s law. Profit being the measure and companies getting so efficient at optimizing it, that we’re starting to harm the things that profit is a proxy for.
- keeda 1y ago
  My take is "capitalism" is often used as a stand-in for "wealth inequality", which seems reasonable. This is arguably the inevitable outcome of (late-stage?) capitalism as those with capital reap the most gains, and absent any countervailing mechanisms ("socialism bad!!!") leverage that wealth to ensure the cycle continues.
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  Can't happen fast enough It's not that any alternative is better, rather, it's that we have all been far too cherry and positive about capitalism up to this point. You should be sad/unhappy to participate in the market. It is evil, the problem is that everything else is more evil.
gear54rus 1y ago
I'm stunned that they actually gave access for a chat bot to do refunds without human interaction. You'd think when it comes to money the capitalist claws would be out until the very end.

This comment is a dire indictment of the state of capitalism from start to end.

AlecSchueler 1y ago

Is it just me or has the tide of opinion on HN really shifted against capitalism in the past year?

throwawayoldie 1y ago
The average HN reader is growing older, and wiser.
- eddythompson80 1y ago
  More likely just a reddit refugee problem. The "stupid capitalism" narrative is from reddit and is very /r/im14andthisisdeep
  - throwawayoldie 1y ago
    Mmm, no, pretty sure it's my answer.
PaulHoule 1y ago
I thought it was really libertarian what I joined in 2010, it gradually became more diverse in viewpoint. 'Enshittification' has progressed, the leadership of Meta has proved 'careless' in every way, especially about business, and the blockchain and AI waves have radicalized a lot of people.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
OJFord 1y ago
It's just the US-skew I think, Americans (cold war hangover perhaps?) seem to me to make much more of 'capitalism' as a concept that is common for people to have a binary opinion on; if you've noticed a recent change I'd suggest it's reaction against the current Trump presidency, making perhaps left/Democrat-leaning 'anti-capitalist' views more vocal. Just how it seems to me from the UK/Europe, obviously capitalist countries and actual socialism certainly a minority stance, but it's just not such a big deal at all. I don't even think they really mean 'capitalist' though, it's more like what would be framed here as 'tax mega corps more' or 'no more non-doms' or calls to block anti-competitive mergers. A debate baselined at the extreme of capitalism perhaps, whether there should be any controls at all, or everything left to the free market.
Matumio 1y ago
I don't think pointing out something that goes wrong under the current flavour of capitalism is the same as being against capitalism. Similarly, reporting a bad police officer doesn't really mean I'm against having a police, it can also mean that I want them to do a better job.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  No, certainly not, but individual instances can be seen as part of a larger trend.
9rx 1y ago
Nah. "Capitalism" is simply losing its original meaning amid more lower quality comments. If you look closely, the earlier comment is really about the apparent failing of intellectual property laws (which are antithetical to capitalism!), not capitalism. In the olden days HN users would have taken care to make it clear that they were talking about IP laws, but now "capitalism" has come to be used as some kind of catch-all for all the ills seen around government. Most especially when it is a comment void of anything useful and is merely trying to tug on heart strings.
- mlinhares 1y ago
  Capitalism suffers from the same problem as communism, its either everything is capitalism or nothing is capitalism. The frequent pattern is if it is good, its capitalism, if it is bad it isn't.
  - 9rx 1y ago
    That makes sense. Communism in its original sense is literally science fiction, but along the way, in an effort to tug on heart strings, communism also came to refer to rule under the Communist party. Which follows that (HN being American-centric), capitalism is being used to mean rule under the Republican party — which, especially in the past year, has seen growing negative sentiment. Another commenter basically said the same thing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44651323 But I maintain that is still a product of lower quality comments. In the HN days of yore, commenters put more effort in to speaking clearly (often to the point of pedantry, for better or worse) rather than trying to get readers' emotions all worked up.
- mashygpig 1y ago
  I’m looking closely and I’m not seeing IP laws being relevant. Maybe regarding windows 11 keys? Can you elaborate? I think the claim isn’t totally inaccurate. Claiming that companies prioritize making products last just beyond return windows because that maximizes profits is a critique of capitalism IMO. Since capitalism is about profit (capital) being the dominant signal as far as I understand it. In my opinion, a lot of frustration about capitalism nowadays can be tied to Goodhart’s law. Profit being the measure and companies getting so efficient at optimizing it, that we’re starting to harm the things that profit is a proxy for.
keeda 1y ago
My take is "capitalism" is often used as a stand-in for "wealth inequality", which seems reasonable. This is arguably the inevitable outcome of (late-stage?) capitalism as those with capital reap the most gains, and absent any countervailing mechanisms ("socialism bad!!!") leverage that wealth to ensure the cycle continues.
Der_Einzige 1y ago
Can't happen fast enough It's not that any alternative is better, rather, it's that we have all been far too cherry and positive about capitalism up to this point. You should be sad/unhappy to participate in the market. It is evil, the problem is that everything else is more evil.

gear54rus 1y ago

I'm stunned that they actually gave access for a chat bot to do refunds without human interaction. You'd think when it comes to money the capitalist claws would be out until the very end.