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Sure, it was a Democrat president enforcing laws passed by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 1990 and 1994, under at least one Democrat president. Ther

Sure, it was a Democrat president enforcing laws passed by a Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 1990 and 1994, under at least one Democrat president. There are no real "sides" when it comes to the U.S. and Israel. Every party bends the knee and kisses the wall. It’s one big club, and we’re not in it.

csours 1y ago
Excuses and explanations can feel the same. I do not intend this to be an excuse, but a partial explanation. Before the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, there was a feeling of a possibility of peace in some form; in this context, those laws could be viewed as the stick of a carrot and stick approach. At this point in time, you can make your own determination about how that has worked out.
- amendegree 1y ago
  Because Israel alone bears all the responsibility for the lack of peace in the region… it’s not like these people are perpetually looking for war
rafram 1y ago
> It’s one big club, and we’re not in it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here, but like it or not, most Americans do support Israel.
- jpadkins 1y ago
  it's a reference to a famous George Carlin skit.
- cooper_ganglia 1y ago
  That's no longer true, nor should it be: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-americans-view-israel-and-the-israel-hamas-war-at-the-start-of-trumps-second-term/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-ameri... From the article: >The public’s views of Israel have turned more negative over the past three years. More than half of U.S. adults (53%) now express an unfavorable opinion of Israel, up from 42% in March 2022 It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Putin figured that out. Hitler figured that out. Netanyahu’s still mulling it over.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Well, Israel's been committing a genocide for, conservatively, nearly 60 years, so, yeah, its probably a suprise to them that after that long of not having an adverse effect on US public support, that has changed.
    - amendegree 1y ago
      Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their supposed oppressors. The same state which is right now defending another people from an actual genocide being carried out by self proclaimed jehadis in Syria, and the Druze are now begging to be annexed by Israel. Literally anyone who makes any claims of genocide or ethnic cleansing or most hysterically, “apartheid” outs themselves as a complete ignoramus of the region, history and reality and is openly declaring their bigotry.
      - cooper_ganglia 1y ago
        @grok what is the Nakba
        inemesitaffia 1y ago
        In his book Ma'na al-Nakba (The Meaning of the Disaster), Constantin Zureiq described the Arab defeat not just as a military loss, but as a civilizational setback. He believed the Arab states had been unprepared, disorganized, and overconfident, and that their failure to prevent the establishment of Israel revealed deeper problems in Arab society—like a lack of modern institutions, unity, and strategic thinking. i.e the failure to prevent Israel existing. From the River to the sea Palestine will be Arab indeed
        1y ago
- imbusy111 1y ago
  Not according to the latest polls that I can find.
- taylodl 1y ago
  Most American evangelicals support Israel. I'm not so sure if the rest of the remaining Americans also support Israel.
  - dmix 1y ago
    According to Gallup the majority of the US public supports Israel over Palestine, just as it has for decades. It's now "at it's lowest in 25 years" but it's still 46% vs 33% for Palestine, down from around 60% pro Israel in prior years. https://thecradle.co/articles/us-popular-support-for-israel-hits-lowest-point-in-25-years-poll https://thecradle.co/articles/us-popular-support-for-israel-... About 10% of Americans identify as evangelical protestants https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/how-many-evangelicals-are-there https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/how-many-evangelicals-...
    - lawlessone 1y ago
      That drops quite bad for Israel though if means more Americans wouldn't mind cutting off support for them. A lot more Americans support helping Ukraine.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - netsharc 1y ago
      > According to Gallup the majority of the US public supports Israel over Palestine Gotta love you turning this into a concept similar to "which sports team do you support more". Following your link, the actual question is "In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians?". which has a lot different nuance (nuance? Oh wait I forget where I am...)
    - int_19h 1y ago
      46% is a plurality, not a majority.
      - 1y ago
- scottydelta 1y ago
  Just like how Ted Cruz believes that Bible says that they have to defend Israel. Now if you ask him where exactly in Bible? He will deflect because his Bible is the American Evangelicals. So much for separation of state and religion.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - tekknik 1y ago
    Numbers 24:9 is the verse that states that those who support and help Israel will be blessed and those that curse it cursed.
    - cooper_ganglia 1y ago
      Numbers 24:9 (and Genesis 12:3) were about ancient Israel, but Paul reinterprets them in Galatians 3:16. The true “seed of Abraham” is Christ, and the promise applies to those in Him: Christians, not Jews. There’s no biblical mandate to support modern Israel.
      - chrismorgan 1y ago
        You’ve got to consider Romans as well, half of which is dedicated to the question of the Jews. (Summarising aggressively: Is there anything special about being a Jew? Yes and no, but more no. Has God replaced them? Yes and no, but ultimately more no than yes.) Romans 11 is especially relevant.
        cooper_ganglia 1y ago
        I think that means there's a biblical mandate to evangelize and convert Jews to Christianity, but it doesn’t change the fact that there is no scripture requiring Christians to support the modern nation or government of Israel. To me, Romans 9:8 and Romans 11:13–32 (especially verses 30–32) summarize this well. In Romans 11:26-27, Paul is referencing the promise in Isaiah 59:20: “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord. But that promise is conditional, it’s directed at those who repent. And you can't repent of the sin of denying the Holy Spirit, the very testimony of Christ, if you refuse to even acknowledge that He exists!
- bdcravens 1y ago
  On specific issues, perhaps. (such as against Hamas) Overall, it seems that support is waning. (46% according to Gallup) https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-to...
  - paulddraper 1y ago
    But even fewer support Palestine, which is what the UNESCO policy is about.
- MPSFounder 1y ago
  [flagged]
- Dig1t 1y ago
  >most Americans do support Israel This is just not true. Most Americans are actually unaware how much influence Israel and its lobby has over our politicians and are also mostly unaware of what is actually happening over there. There is a set of evangelical Christians who have misinterpreted a passage in the book of Genesis to mean that blessing the tribe of Israel means sending unlimited weapons to the modern nation state of Israel. But that is not even close to the majority of Americans.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
ajross 1y ago
Did you... look up the override votes that failed in 2011 to see what the partisan breakdown was? I know it makes you feel good to imagine a world of enemies, and "every party bends the knee and kiss the wall" is some top notch imagery. But in the real world you have allies in this particular fight, and working against them is in fact doing the opposite of what you claim to want.
pkilgore 1y ago
I never made inaccurate claims about those things!

csours 1y ago

Excuses and explanations can feel the same. I do not intend this to be an excuse, but a partial explanation. Before the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, there was a feeling of a possibility of peace in some form; in this context, those laws could be viewed as the stick of a carrot and stick approach. At this point in time, you can make your own determination about how that has worked out.

amendegree 1y ago
Because Israel alone bears all the responsibility for the lack of peace in the region… it’s not like these people are perpetually looking for war

rafram 1y ago

> It’s one big club, and we’re not in it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply here, but like it or not, most Americans do support Israel.

jpadkins 1y ago
it's a reference to a famous George Carlin skit.
cooper_ganglia 1y ago
That's no longer true, nor should it be: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-americans-view-israel-and-the-israel-hamas-war-at-the-start-of-trumps-second-term/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-ameri... From the article: >The public’s views of Israel have turned more negative over the past three years. More than half of U.S. adults (53%) now express an unfavorable opinion of Israel, up from 42% in March 2022 It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Putin figured that out. Hitler figured that out. Netanyahu’s still mulling it over.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > It turns out when you invade a country and commit a genocide, you become less popular. Well, Israel's been committing a genocide for, conservatively, nearly 60 years, so, yeah, its probably a suprise to them that after that long of not having an adverse effect on US public support, that has changed.
  - amendegree 1y ago
    Ah yes, the genocide where the people being genocided continue to outpace the population growth of the nation doing the genocide. The ethnic cleansing where the only time it happens is to remove Jews from an area. The apartheid where the “subjugated” sit on the Supreme Court, have 10+ seats in parliament (which matches voting demographics), were recently part of the majority, and share all the same rights as their supposed oppressors. The same state which is right now defending another people from an actual genocide being carried out by self proclaimed jehadis in Syria, and the Druze are now begging to be annexed by Israel. Literally anyone who makes any claims of genocide or ethnic cleansing or most hysterically, “apartheid” outs themselves as a complete ignoramus of the region, history and reality and is openly declaring their bigotry.
    - cooper_ganglia 1y ago
      @grok what is the Nakba
      - inemesitaffia 1y ago
        In his book Ma'na al-Nakba (The Meaning of the Disaster), Constantin Zureiq described the Arab defeat not just as a military loss, but as a civilizational setback. He believed the Arab states had been unprepared, disorganized, and overconfident, and that their failure to prevent the establishment of Israel revealed deeper problems in Arab society—like a lack of modern institutions, unity, and strategic thinking. i.e the failure to prevent Israel existing. From the River to the sea Palestine will be Arab indeed
      - 1y ago
imbusy111 1y ago
Not according to the latest polls that I can find.
taylodl 1y ago
Most American evangelicals support Israel. I'm not so sure if the rest of the remaining Americans also support Israel.
- dmix 1y ago
  According to Gallup the majority of the US public supports Israel over Palestine, just as it has for decades. It's now "at it's lowest in 25 years" but it's still 46% vs 33% for Palestine, down from around 60% pro Israel in prior years. https://thecradle.co/articles/us-popular-support-for-israel-hits-lowest-point-in-25-years-poll https://thecradle.co/articles/us-popular-support-for-israel-... About 10% of Americans identify as evangelical protestants https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/how-many-evangelicals-are-there https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/how-many-evangelicals-...
  - lawlessone 1y ago
    That drops quite bad for Israel though if means more Americans wouldn't mind cutting off support for them. A lot more Americans support helping Ukraine.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - netsharc 1y ago
    > According to Gallup the majority of the US public supports Israel over Palestine Gotta love you turning this into a concept similar to "which sports team do you support more". Following your link, the actual question is "In the Middle East situation, are your sympathies more with the Israelis or more with the Palestinians?". which has a lot different nuance (nuance? Oh wait I forget where I am...)
  - int_19h 1y ago
    46% is a plurality, not a majority.
    - 1y ago
scottydelta 1y ago
Just like how Ted Cruz believes that Bible says that they have to defend Israel. Now if you ask him where exactly in Bible? He will deflect because his Bible is the American Evangelicals. So much for separation of state and religion.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- tekknik 1y ago
  Numbers 24:9 is the verse that states that those who support and help Israel will be blessed and those that curse it cursed.
  - cooper_ganglia 1y ago
    Numbers 24:9 (and Genesis 12:3) were about ancient Israel, but Paul reinterprets them in Galatians 3:16. The true “seed of Abraham” is Christ, and the promise applies to those in Him: Christians, not Jews. There’s no biblical mandate to support modern Israel.
    - chrismorgan 1y ago
      You’ve got to consider Romans as well, half of which is dedicated to the question of the Jews. (Summarising aggressively: Is there anything special about being a Jew? Yes and no, but more no. Has God replaced them? Yes and no, but ultimately more no than yes.) Romans 11 is especially relevant.
      - cooper_ganglia 1y ago
        I think that means there's a biblical mandate to evangelize and convert Jews to Christianity, but it doesn’t change the fact that there is no scripture requiring Christians to support the modern nation or government of Israel. To me, Romans 9:8 and Romans 11:13–32 (especially verses 30–32) summarize this well. In Romans 11:26-27, Paul is referencing the promise in Isaiah 59:20: “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord. But that promise is conditional, it’s directed at those who repent. And you can't repent of the sin of denying the Holy Spirit, the very testimony of Christ, if you refuse to even acknowledge that He exists!
bdcravens 1y ago
On specific issues, perhaps. (such as against Hamas) Overall, it seems that support is waning. (46% according to Gallup) https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-to...
- paulddraper 1y ago
  But even fewer support Palestine, which is what the UNESCO policy is about.
MPSFounder 1y ago
[flagged]
Dig1t 1y ago
>most Americans do support Israel This is just not true. Most Americans are actually unaware how much influence Israel and its lobby has over our politicians and are also mostly unaware of what is actually happening over there. There is a set of evangelical Christians who have misinterpreted a passage in the book of Genesis to mean that blessing the tribe of Israel means sending unlimited weapons to the modern nation state of Israel. But that is not even close to the majority of Americans.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

ajross 1y ago

Did you... look up the override votes that failed in 2011 to see what the partisan breakdown was? I know it makes you feel good to imagine a world of enemies, and "every party bends the knee and kiss the wall" is some top notch imagery. But in the real world you have allies in this particular fight, and working against them is in fact doing the opposite of what you claim to want.

pkilgore 1y ago

I never made inaccurate claims about those things!