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Isn't this good? I thought outsourcing meant we get cheaper goods like iPhones and laptops. Now we can outsource middle-class service jobs for cheaper services
by kypro 1y ago
Isn't this good?
I thought outsourcing meant we get cheaper goods like iPhones and laptops. Now we can outsource middle-class service jobs for cheaper services?
- mellosouls 1y agoIts not simply outsourcing. Its using offshoring to hypocritically, dishonestly and deliberately trash native jobs and salaries, while (normally) maintaining those of the decision-makers. I'm not against realistic economics and open markets leading to a more balanced world, but this is just shark-toothed capitalism with contempt for individuals and the societies the organisations exist in.
- energy123 1y agoThat is the nativist view, yes. But I am not a nativist. Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances.
- newsclues 1y agoSome people "compete" with bombs and guns, when they feel they were screwed over.
- benreesman 1y agoThe point is not that companies hiring workers overseas is inherently bad. The point is that companies rest on the infrastructure of society, they are only possible because of everything from the physical infrastructure of energy to the institutional infrastructure of courts and markets. These things are for the most part provided by the tax base in their home country. There are for the most part rules, laws, and norms about how much and what kind of economic activity must accrue back to the society that incubated and hosts the company. Arbitraging those rules and norms to extract rents is not in general a social good.
- energy123 1y agoYou make a good argument that corporate tax havens should be prevented with policy.
- soulofmischief 1y agoIf governments don't interfere, corporations and capitalists will. And they will not play fairly.
- energy123 1y agoIs this supposed to be an argument that governments should force companies to implement nativist hiring policies.
- soulofmischief 1y agoI am replying to "Let every member of our species compete on a fair playing field without government interference, regardless of their birth circumstances", and have said nothing on nativism. The quote I am replying to stands on its own regarding criticism. "Government" is supposed to just be The People, and preventing "government interference" becomes a dog whistle for "let the market do what it wants, if people with capital use it to further acquire capital at the expense of those without, so be it."
- jdjdmizn 1y agoFunny thing is, talking in general terms, everyone hates off shoring but not every one hates exports/expanding to other markets and profiting off it. By this logic, you should also advocate for native jobs and salaries for every market the company is in, no? Not saying company X isn't off shoring to save costs and hurting local jobs. But it is also perhaps true that company Y is growing and selling their services/products in N countries but only has jobs in one(or few) of countries perhaps. Why is this fair if the first one isn't ?
- CommanderData 1y agoNot sure if sarcasm but let's just obliterate the west's middle class. I'm sure all will be fine.
- kypro 1y agoWe did it for all the working class jobs though? Plus the media says all economists agree that protectionist policies are bad... I read that paying workers first-world salary to make things in first-world countries will increase product and service costs which is bad for economy. Apparently if the West can't compete with third-world labour it's better to just outsource the those uncompetitive manual labour and service jobs.
- soulofmischief 1y agoIt's a self-fulfilling prophecy when we've used military and political intervention for centuries to create poor, low-wage countries in order to increase corporate profits. The entire state of this global economy is artificial and shaped by violence and collusion, and so the answers to our global economic problems are not necessarily axiomatic in a healthier, more fair environment.
- BobbyTables2 1y agoAgree, but what’s left? How would countries that import everything, export little, actually survive? Feels like in the medium term, the West survives by importing both goods and skilled engineers/researchers, because it provides a ready-made environment conducive for business. Feels like that is just an aberration that lower cost countries will eventually match. I’m sick of “American tech startups” that consist of some US-based VC investors, a figurehead “founder”, a few beefy executives who only care about their headshot, and all engineering/manufacturing done in Asia. It’s not like we can export our realtor and insurance salespeople to 3rd world countries either…
- komali2 1y agoThe thread you kicked off with this comment is one of my favorite I've read on HN in a while because it seems you've somehow gotten people to accidentally spout Marxist ideologies in the comments in their attempts to reconcile their belief in free market economics with the natural result of free market economics.
- Veen 1y agoResistance to free market economics is not necessarily Marxist. Old-fashioned one-nation conservatives also find offshoring of this sort objectionable. If you consider the job of the state to be to cultivate a stable, cohesive society, you're going to favour regulation of actions that undermine that objective, including business strategies that erode the local skill base and economy.
- komali2 1y agoBut, that's not free market economics then.
- modo_mario 1y agoYes, that's what he said.
- BobbyTables2 1y agoIt’s also a national security argument. Not just in terms of military defense but also political/trade relations. Entirely outsourcing all critical goods and services is foolish. Who wants to be vulnerable to the whims of other countries?
- Der_Einzige 1y agoIt also shows that the median HN member is extremely racist against indians and believes in the great replacement!
- nsingh2 1y ago