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When an optometrist chose to file a claim against my medical insurance (which did not pay) rather than my vision insurance (which would), the only way I was abl

When an optometrist chose to file a claim against my medical insurance (which did not pay) rather than my vision insurance (which would), the only way I was able to get them to fix it was by filing a complaint with the BBB. Multiple calls with customer service only resulted in "there is nothing we can do to change it", but somehow they figured out how to fix it when they got the BBB complaint letter. How else can private citizens keep businesses honest? Complaining on the internet only works if you have lots of followers.

charlesabarnes 1y ago
The BBB complaints list is a glorified internet post. It's not keeping a business any more honest than posting a review on Google or Yelp.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  That’s exactly right. BBB is Yelp for boomers, and that’s it. I’ve heard plenty of older family and acquaintances wave it around like a weapon: “if they don’t honor my (ridiculous) request, I’ll sic the BBB on them!” And then… what? I’m sure someone, somewhere checks BBB before doing business with a company, but I’ve never personally seen someone do it, and without that feedback loop, the BBB is just another private review site with zero teeth.
  - bigmattystyles 1y ago
    And in the same vein, yelp is bbb for millennials.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      No argument from me on that one. The main difference is that I’ve actually steered away from businesses with bad Yelp reviews.
  - drdeadringer 1y ago
    Speaking for myself, I know that I have never looked up a business for BBB accreditation. (I am 43 and a half). Yelp reviews, TripAdvisor, Google reviews, yes. And as honestly never crossed my mind to check with BBB about anything. But I haven't done any major purchasing like with property, land, or similar.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      I’m a bit older than you, but same. I’ve bought property and land, and it never occurred to me to check BBB for anything, ever. I know it’s a thing that exists, and that’s about the extent of it.
  - forgotoldacc 1y ago
    I think a lot of older people really thought the BBB was an arm of the government and had power to enforce things.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      I think they were clever with the name “Bureau”. It has a connotation of officialness, like “Agency” or “Administration”.
      - firesteelrain 1y ago
        You can still hear on the local news here: “Or you can file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.”
  - TeMPOraL 1y ago
    People don't look businesses up on Facebook or X much here either, and yet many times I've witnessed my SO break through being stonewalled by some business with just a simple line, delivered in calm voice: "okay, I'll take it to Facebook, we'll see if you like a drama there" (or "X" more recently). Just like that, 90% success rate, and no actual public drama on social media. Don't know how that works. It's Poland, approximately nobody here even used Twitter, nor do they use X - and yet, businesses big and small seem super sensitive to that.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >. BBB is Yelp for boomers, Complete with undeserved reputability and "pay to remove" system to extract $ on the business facing side.
- izacus 1y ago
  The person you're responding to literally claims otherwise. Are you calling them a liar or do you have something to substantiate your claims?
  - anton-c 1y ago
    They mean inherently I think. As in it doesn't enforce any "better business" practices. The only threat is public shaming through them. But they themselves won't actually solve it.
  - jerbearito 1y ago
    I don't understand why they need to "substantiate" their opinion, but the commenter they're replying to wouldn't need to substantiate their anecdotal evidence. They can "literally" claim anything. I do think Mindless2112's experience is common with larger businesses, making the BBB potentially more effective in those cases than online review sites like Google or Yelp. Also, do those sites send complaint letters? I don't know.
    - elashri 1y ago
      There is a miles of difference between providing one specific claim based on experience that does not claim that this happens with all businesses. Vs the other claim that BBB complaints doesn't work and is no more than a glorified lists in general.
      - jerbearito 1y ago
        Agreed! My question remains – why does one need to be substantiated while the other doesn’t?
  - bitshiftfaced 1y ago
    I don't see anything to indicate that Mindless2112 is "lying," but it does look like they might be a bit confused. BBB really is just another review website like Yelp and Google reviews (with the added step of sending the business a letter in the mail).
- JohnClark1337 1y ago
  [dead]
decimalenough 1y ago
> How else can private citizens keep businesses honest? I know this was a rhetorical question, but in many countries there is some type of Fair Trading Office, meaning a government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
  > government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements These would in fact be great thing. The problem being that if this existed and did what it was supposed to do, it would only be a matter of time before Trump appointed someone to either destroy it or weaponize it against perceived enemies. The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses.
  - smegger001 1y ago
    Like the consumer financial protection bureau. Twas great while itlasted but it got doge'ed early on.
  - ghusto 1y ago
    > The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses I don't have an answer, but one could be found by looking at places that have just that. In the UK we have the Citizens Advice bureau and the Trading Standards organisation which are safely independent. Though I have a feeling the answer may be; "Don't live in the USA".
- cwmma 1y ago
  Depending on where you live your state may actually have one of these, in mine it's in the office of the state Attorney General.
  - 1y ago
BoredPositron 1y ago
Small claims usually works quite well.
jimmydddd 1y ago
This must be some sort of weird optometrist thing. Mine always asks for my medical insurance, and after I tell them they have my vision plan info, they still want my medical plan info. Then they try to bill me medical plan instead of the vision plan. I then correct the situation, but it takes time and several phone calls. Maybe it's some sort of scam where they think the medical insurance will pay more?

charlesabarnes 1y ago

The BBB complaints list is a glorified internet post. It's not keeping a business any more honest than posting a review on Google or Yelp.

kstrauser 1y ago
That’s exactly right. BBB is Yelp for boomers, and that’s it. I’ve heard plenty of older family and acquaintances wave it around like a weapon: “if they don’t honor my (ridiculous) request, I’ll sic the BBB on them!” And then… what? I’m sure someone, somewhere checks BBB before doing business with a company, but I’ve never personally seen someone do it, and without that feedback loop, the BBB is just another private review site with zero teeth.
- bigmattystyles 1y ago
  And in the same vein, yelp is bbb for millennials.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    No argument from me on that one. The main difference is that I’ve actually steered away from businesses with bad Yelp reviews.
- drdeadringer 1y ago
  Speaking for myself, I know that I have never looked up a business for BBB accreditation. (I am 43 and a half). Yelp reviews, TripAdvisor, Google reviews, yes. And as honestly never crossed my mind to check with BBB about anything. But I haven't done any major purchasing like with property, land, or similar.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    I’m a bit older than you, but same. I’ve bought property and land, and it never occurred to me to check BBB for anything, ever. I know it’s a thing that exists, and that’s about the extent of it.
- forgotoldacc 1y ago
  I think a lot of older people really thought the BBB was an arm of the government and had power to enforce things.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    I think they were clever with the name “Bureau”. It has a connotation of officialness, like “Agency” or “Administration”.
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      You can still hear on the local news here: “Or you can file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.”
- TeMPOraL 1y ago
  People don't look businesses up on Facebook or X much here either, and yet many times I've witnessed my SO break through being stonewalled by some business with just a simple line, delivered in calm voice: "okay, I'll take it to Facebook, we'll see if you like a drama there" (or "X" more recently). Just like that, 90% success rate, and no actual public drama on social media. Don't know how that works. It's Poland, approximately nobody here even used Twitter, nor do they use X - and yet, businesses big and small seem super sensitive to that.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >. BBB is Yelp for boomers, Complete with undeserved reputability and "pay to remove" system to extract $ on the business facing side.
izacus 1y ago
The person you're responding to literally claims otherwise. Are you calling them a liar or do you have something to substantiate your claims?
- anton-c 1y ago
  They mean inherently I think. As in it doesn't enforce any "better business" practices. The only threat is public shaming through them. But they themselves won't actually solve it.
- jerbearito 1y ago
  I don't understand why they need to "substantiate" their opinion, but the commenter they're replying to wouldn't need to substantiate their anecdotal evidence. They can "literally" claim anything. I do think Mindless2112's experience is common with larger businesses, making the BBB potentially more effective in those cases than online review sites like Google or Yelp. Also, do those sites send complaint letters? I don't know.
  - elashri 1y ago
    There is a miles of difference between providing one specific claim based on experience that does not claim that this happens with all businesses. Vs the other claim that BBB complaints doesn't work and is no more than a glorified lists in general.
    - jerbearito 1y ago
      Agreed! My question remains – why does one need to be substantiated while the other doesn’t?
- bitshiftfaced 1y ago
  I don't see anything to indicate that Mindless2112 is "lying," but it does look like they might be a bit confused. BBB really is just another review website like Yelp and Google reviews (with the added step of sending the business a letter in the mail).
JohnClark1337 1y ago
[dead]

decimalenough 1y ago

> How else can private citizens keep businesses honest? I know this was a rhetorical question, but in many countries there is some type of Fair Trading Office, meaning a government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements.

Eddy_Viscosity2 1y ago
> government body with power to adjudicate consumer complaints about businesses and the legal teeth to enforce its judgements These would in fact be great thing. The problem being that if this existed and did what it was supposed to do, it would only be a matter of time before Trump appointed someone to either destroy it or weaponize it against perceived enemies. The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses.
- smegger001 1y ago
  Like the consumer financial protection bureau. Twas great while itlasted but it got doge'ed early on.
- ghusto 1y ago
  > The bigger question is how can we have a body that can both protect consumers from bad businesses AND can also be itself protected from the purchased political influence of those bad businesses I don't have an answer, but one could be found by looking at places that have just that. In the UK we have the Citizens Advice bureau and the Trading Standards organisation which are safely independent. Though I have a feeling the answer may be; "Don't live in the USA".
cwmma 1y ago
Depending on where you live your state may actually have one of these, in mine it's in the office of the state Attorney General.
- 1y ago

BoredPositron 1y ago

Small claims usually works quite well.

jimmydddd 1y ago

This must be some sort of weird optometrist thing. Mine always asks for my medical insurance, and after I tell them they have my vision plan info, they still want my medical plan info. Then they try to bill me medical plan instead of the vision plan. I then correct the situation, but it takes time and several phone calls. Maybe it's some sort of scam where they think the medical insurance will pay more?