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How many package managers can one language have? Its a simple language but setting it up is just incredibly bad. Maybe this is the one or should I wait for the

by rr808 1y ago

How many package managers can one language have? Its a simple language but setting it up is just incredibly bad. Maybe this is the one or should I wait for the next?

xyse53 1y ago
I recommend trying it, it gets a ton of hype but I think for good reason. This is the one.
roywiggins 1y ago
imo all I usually need is pip-tools and venv, but uv kind of bundles the two together in a very natural way (and is very fast)
- nomel 1y ago
  Unless you're installing a new version of python, I have trouble seeing how preceding all the normal command with "uv" can be seen as much of a difference.
  - roywiggins 1y ago
    It's not that much of a difference, but it is faster, and when you do need to switch pythons, you're already set up. uv also has some different workflows, universal lock files, and the caching is also nice. And the PEP 723 support is cool! Poetry was a big difference, it was also very slow for me, and so I never picked it up.
selcuka 1y ago
I had the same sentiment, but uv seems to have eliminated the competition. Installing uv using your OS package manager is enough as it can also download and install (isolated) Python interpreters as well.
- frollogaston 1y ago
  Except pip still exists and is default, and even if they adopted uv as default instead, all the legacy stuff takes years to change.
  - NeutralForest 1y ago
    pip is not a package manager, it's only meant for installing packages. Also, uv has a pip-compliant interface through `uv pip` which lets you interface with pip easily.
    - frollogaston 1y ago
      Those shouldn't be separate things. uv is both. Anyway, the default package manager is pipenv https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorials/managing-dependencies/ https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorials/managing-de...
      - NeutralForest 1y ago
        You do you. I'm happy with uv.
  - selcuka 1y ago
    > even if they adopted uv as default instead, all the legacy stuff takes years to change Who are "they"? I am not waiting for anyone to adopt uv. I've adopted it myself and forgotten about pip as uv is pip-compatible for all practical purposes.
    - frollogaston 1y ago
      The Python foundation first off, then companies and teams using it. If you're a 1-person team then sure you pick everything, but even then you have to worry about compatibility with other tools. Like, Heroku only got support recently: https://www.heroku.com/blog/local-speed-smooth-deploys-heroku-adds-support-uv/ https://www.heroku.com/blog/local-speed-smooth-deploys-herok... or if you're running someone else's code, maybe you have to figure out your own pyproject.toml Compare to npm which has been the default installer/manager in NodeJS since forever, so it's totally supported, and any git repo you happen to download has a package.json
frollogaston 1y ago
I wish they would make uv default and end this game.
pietroppeter 1y ago
This is the way
pansa2 1y ago
> Its a simple language No, it isn’t. This misconception is common and I don’t know where it comes from. Python is a very complex language hiding behind friendly syntax.
dagw 1y ago
Its a simple language It really isn't, and that is why the install and setup tools are so problematic. They have to hide and overcome a lot of complexity.

by rr808 1y ago

How many package managers can one language have? Its a simple language but setting it up is just incredibly bad. Maybe this is the one or should I wait for the next?

xyse53 1y ago

I recommend trying it, it gets a ton of hype but I think for good reason. This is the one.

roywiggins 1y ago

imo all I usually need is pip-tools and venv, but uv kind of bundles the two together in a very natural way (and is very fast)

nomel 1y ago
Unless you're installing a new version of python, I have trouble seeing how preceding all the normal command with "uv" can be seen as much of a difference.
- roywiggins 1y ago
  It's not that much of a difference, but it is faster, and when you do need to switch pythons, you're already set up. uv also has some different workflows, universal lock files, and the caching is also nice. And the PEP 723 support is cool! Poetry was a big difference, it was also very slow for me, and so I never picked it up.

selcuka 1y ago

I had the same sentiment, but uv seems to have eliminated the competition. Installing uv using your OS package manager is enough as it can also download and install (isolated) Python interpreters as well.

frollogaston 1y ago
Except pip still exists and is default, and even if they adopted uv as default instead, all the legacy stuff takes years to change.
- NeutralForest 1y ago
  pip is not a package manager, it's only meant for installing packages. Also, uv has a pip-compliant interface through `uv pip` which lets you interface with pip easily.
  - frollogaston 1y ago
    Those shouldn't be separate things. uv is both. Anyway, the default package manager is pipenv https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorials/managing-dependencies/ https://packaging.python.org/en/latest/tutorials/managing-de...
    - NeutralForest 1y ago
      You do you. I'm happy with uv.
- selcuka 1y ago
  > even if they adopted uv as default instead, all the legacy stuff takes years to change Who are "they"? I am not waiting for anyone to adopt uv. I've adopted it myself and forgotten about pip as uv is pip-compatible for all practical purposes.
  - frollogaston 1y ago
    The Python foundation first off, then companies and teams using it. If you're a 1-person team then sure you pick everything, but even then you have to worry about compatibility with other tools. Like, Heroku only got support recently: https://www.heroku.com/blog/local-speed-smooth-deploys-heroku-adds-support-uv/ https://www.heroku.com/blog/local-speed-smooth-deploys-herok... or if you're running someone else's code, maybe you have to figure out your own pyproject.toml Compare to npm which has been the default installer/manager in NodeJS since forever, so it's totally supported, and any git repo you happen to download has a package.json

frollogaston 1y ago

I wish they would make uv default and end this game.

pietroppeter 1y ago

This is the way

pansa2 1y ago

> Its a simple language No, it isn’t. This misconception is common and I don’t know where it comes from. Python is a very complex language hiding behind friendly syntax.

dagw 1y ago

Its a simple language It really isn't, and that is why the install and setup tools are so problematic. They have to hide and overcome a lot of complexity.