4 ms·

if it were zero sum then how come middle class people nowadays live better lives than kings 500 years ago?

bgwalter 1y ago
I'd rather have Versailles than my current apartment. I think all standard pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted in these comments.
- anothereng 1y ago
  so you want to be rich and are mad that you're not?
  - Tadpole9181 1y ago
    Oh, he was wrong, now all pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted.
  - happytoexplain 1y ago
    What a hideous mindset. This attitude is the origin of the ruin of civilization.
heavyset_go 1y ago
What middle class person has thousands of literal servants who will spend every waking hour serving, feeding, cleaning, tailoring, cooking and creating for them in their giant, country-spanning estates? How many middle class people have the God-given divine right to rule and demand the sons of every nobleman to fight to keep and expand their power? How many middle class people literally own a country and can dictate what happens in it from the top down? How many vineyards do middle class people own? How many garden hermits[1] do they keep on their estates simply for their ambience and kitsch? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit
- anothereng 1y ago
  you don't need that many servants when you have businesses that offer the same services and you can afford them. Or you think middle class people can't afford travelling, laundry services, food delivery, etc. The second thing you're referring to is power. Power I admit can be zero sum but most people are not ambitious in that way, they just want material wealth not political power.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    Sorry, using DoorDash to order fast food is not the same thing as having a team of the country's best chefs cooking every meal for you in your castle using ingredients your farmers hand-picked on your own vast swathes of premium farmland. Sounds healthier, too. Similarly, spending $10 at McDonald's is not the same thing as having teams of servants tending to your every whim every waking moment until you die. If you can't see that clear difference, I don't think you're approaching this in good faith. You shouldn't have to stretch the truth this much to make your point if it's actually true and you know it.
    - ninkendo 1y ago
      Let’s compare my quality of life to a king 500 years ago. I have air conditioning. I have running water and a toilet. I have antibiotics. And all sorts of other medicine that actually works. When I have to get an operation done I can go under anesthesia rather than it being literal torture. And I won’t be killed by an infection resulting from the tiniest cut. I have literally endless entertainment. More than I can ever consume in a lifetime. I have access to just about any piece of information that has ever existed and been made public. I don’t have to worry about being killed by an uprising. I can go on.
      - betaby 1y ago
        > I have air conditioning. I find Spanish castels from 1500-1600 to be pleasant enough temperature wise even when it's +35C outside.
happytoexplain 1y ago
Nobody is arguing that it is zero-sum across time. It is zero sum across space (i.e. across people).
Chinjut 1y ago
Middle class people are forced to work at jobs doing what some boss tells them to do instead of what they like with the majority of their waking hours. In that regard, they live lives far from as pleasurable as those of kings.

I'd rather have Versailles than my current apartment. I think all standard pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted in these comments.

anothereng 1y ago
so you want to be rich and are mad that you're not?
- Tadpole9181 1y ago
  Oh, he was wrong, now all pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted.
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  What a hideous mindset. This attitude is the origin of the ruin of civilization.

heavyset_go 1y ago

What middle class person has thousands of literal servants who will spend every waking hour serving, feeding, cleaning, tailoring, cooking and creating for them in their giant, country-spanning estates? How many middle class people have the God-given divine right to rule and demand the sons of every nobleman to fight to keep and expand their power? How many middle class people literally own a country and can dictate what happens in it from the top down? How many vineyards do middle class people own? How many garden hermits[1] do they keep on their estates simply for their ambience and kitsch? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit

anothereng 1y ago
you don't need that many servants when you have businesses that offer the same services and you can afford them. Or you think middle class people can't afford travelling, laundry services, food delivery, etc. The second thing you're referring to is power. Power I admit can be zero sum but most people are not ambitious in that way, they just want material wealth not political power.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  Sorry, using DoorDash to order fast food is not the same thing as having a team of the country's best chefs cooking every meal for you in your castle using ingredients your farmers hand-picked on your own vast swathes of premium farmland. Sounds healthier, too. Similarly, spending $10 at McDonald's is not the same thing as having teams of servants tending to your every whim every waking moment until you die. If you can't see that clear difference, I don't think you're approaching this in good faith. You shouldn't have to stretch the truth this much to make your point if it's actually true and you know it.
  - ninkendo 1y ago
    Let’s compare my quality of life to a king 500 years ago. I have air conditioning. I have running water and a toilet. I have antibiotics. And all sorts of other medicine that actually works. When I have to get an operation done I can go under anesthesia rather than it being literal torture. And I won’t be killed by an infection resulting from the tiniest cut. I have literally endless entertainment. More than I can ever consume in a lifetime. I have access to just about any piece of information that has ever existed and been made public. I don’t have to worry about being killed by an uprising. I can go on.
    - betaby 1y ago
      > I have air conditioning. I find Spanish castels from 1500-1600 to be pleasant enough temperature wise even when it's +35C outside.

happytoexplain 1y ago

Nobody is arguing that it is zero-sum across time. It is zero sum across space (i.e. across people).

Chinjut 1y ago

Middle class people are forced to work at jobs doing what some boss tells them to do instead of what they like with the majority of their waking hours. In that regard, they live lives far from as pleasurable as those of kings.