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> A lot of these perspectives cater to an idea that wealth is zero sum. ofcourse its zero sum. There are only so many natural resources to exploit. Zuckerberg
by apwell23 1y ago
> A lot of these perspectives cater to an idea that wealth is zero sum.
ofcourse its zero sum. There are only so many natural resources to exploit. Zuckerberg owns like half of lake tahoe and Hawaii.
- anothereng 1y agoif it were zero sum then how come middle class people nowadays live better lives than kings 500 years ago?
- bgwalter 1y agoI'd rather have Versailles than my current apartment. I think all standard pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted in these comments.
- anothereng 1y agoso you want to be rich and are mad that you're not?
- Tadpole9181 1y agoOh, he was wrong, now all pro-billionaire talking points have been exhausted.
- happytoexplain 1y agoWhat a hideous mindset. This attitude is the origin of the ruin of civilization.
- heavyset_go 1y agoWhat middle class person has thousands of literal servants who will spend every waking hour serving, feeding, cleaning, tailoring, cooking and creating for them in their giant, country-spanning estates? How many middle class people have the God-given divine right to rule and demand the sons of every nobleman to fight to keep and expand their power? How many middle class people literally own a country and can dictate what happens in it from the top down? How many vineyards do middle class people own? How many garden hermits[1] do they keep on their estates simply for their ambience and kitsch? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hermit
- anothereng 1y agoyou don't need that many servants when you have businesses that offer the same services and you can afford them. Or you think middle class people can't afford travelling, laundry services, food delivery, etc. The second thing you're referring to is power. Power I admit can be zero sum but most people are not ambitious in that way, they just want material wealth not political power.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- heavyset_go 1y agoSorry, using DoorDash to order fast food is not the same thing as having a team of the country's best chefs cooking every meal for you in your castle using ingredients your farmers hand-picked on your own vast swathes of premium farmland. Sounds healthier, too. Similarly, spending $10 at McDonald's is not the same thing as having teams of servants tending to your every whim every waking moment until you die. If you can't see that clear difference, I don't think you're approaching this in good faith. You shouldn't have to stretch the truth this much to make your point if it's actually true and you know it.
- ninkendo 1y agoLet’s compare my quality of life to a king 500 years ago. I have air conditioning. I have running water and a toilet. I have antibiotics. And all sorts of other medicine that actually works. When I have to get an operation done I can go under anesthesia rather than it being literal torture. And I won’t be killed by an infection resulting from the tiniest cut. I have literally endless entertainment. More than I can ever consume in a lifetime. I have access to just about any piece of information that has ever existed and been made public. I don’t have to worry about being killed by an uprising. I can go on.
- betaby 1y ago> I have air conditioning. I find Spanish castels from 1500-1600 to be pleasant enough temperature wise even when it's +35C outside.
- happytoexplain 1y agoNobody is arguing that it is zero-sum across time. It is zero sum across space (i.e. across people).
- Chinjut 1y agoMiddle class people are forced to work at jobs doing what some boss tells them to do instead of what they like with the majority of their waking hours. In that regard, they live lives far from as pleasurable as those of kings.
- soulofmischief 1y agoIt's not zero sum if we regulate these resources. The sun provides low entropy which we can convert to an increasing stockpile of wealth. The problem is how we've decided to distribute it, and whether we can successfully transition to mining our local solar system.
- apwell23 1y ago> It's not zero sum if we regulate these resources. That would be good for billionaires because they can be the only ones that have access to those resources. See what is happening in lake tahoe.
- soulofmischief 1y agoYes, proper regulation benefits everyone. You're hinting at the idea that "regulation" will turn into regulatory capture. I share that fear, but at that point we're not talking about real regulation, just political theatre.
- apwell23 1y agoIts not just mark. Most of lake tahoe properties stay empty most of the year. They loudly regulate any new development. Thats happening all over country, even in my middle class neighborhood. Not sure what kind of regulation in this case would benefit everyone.
- soulofmischief 1y agoMy comment was about regulating the consumption of natural resources. Property allocation is a whole other political beast.
- taftster 1y agoThe total sum of all natural resources has yet to be discovered. We were supposed to hit peak oil in what, the 1990's? Trees are on a dramatic decline, but they still exist. No one can correctly or meaningfully count the amount of natural resources left in total existence. And when there's scarcity, another solution tends to emerge as substitute. As such, as parent stated, it's not a zero sum game. Zero sum assumes you can define the end state. That being said, whether or not it's zero-sum is meaningless, and I don't take issue with arguing against the parent. Ultimately, the wealth-gap is widening to detrimental effect. The middle class is being divided into haves and have nots. Whether you believe this is a problem, that's probably another type of discussion.
- apwell23 1y ago> And when there's scarcity, another solution tends to emerge as substitute. then why do we so much conservation and create all sorts of laws around it ?
- jcranmer 1y ago> We were supposed to hit peak oil in what, the 1990's? Originally the late 60's, actually, according to Wikipedia. The failure of Malthusian catastrophes to occur despite centuries of prediction hasn't dampened enthusiasm for predicting them to occur in the near future.