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100%... I'm seeking products that take AA or AAA batteries instead of built-in lithium batteries, for the same reason.
by turnsout 1y ago
100%... I'm seeking products that take AA or AAA batteries instead of built-in lithium batteries, for the same reason.
- Zak 1y agoI wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.
- p1mrx 1y agoI have a couple devices (LDK portable game console, Sihuadon AM/FM radio) that take a Nokia BL-5C, but ~1000 mAh is fairly small.
- y7r4m 1y agoIt would be awesome if we were able to get more things besides vapes (and apparently some flashlights; I assume there are many niches where they are common) to use 18650 or even 21700 li-ion cells. I see most people I know buy AAs by the pallet and go through them regularly for their controllers, led lights, kids toys, etc.. and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly. Also, repeating your sentiment, for all the tech gadgets.. bluetooth speakers, I'm looking at you.. why not have replaceable batteries for those? There have to be enough vapers now that the knowledge of this type of battery as distinct from the old alkaline ones has passed into mainstream consciousness. This would be a huge selling feature for me. The reasons I see are that it is because the rechargable li-ion are more dangerous and a fire hazard, but is this really true? As with most anything that can carry a risk if misused, I can find a few dozen instances where a vape battery went awry, but surely the benefits outweigh the concerns? Edit: I do understand the irony of saying this on a post about when they do go boom.
- kube-system 1y agoThe market for the end product (and the risk aversion of the manufacturer) makes a difference. Flashlight and vape enthusiasts are mostly adults who likely trend as all three of: older and more knowledgeable, more likely to take and accept risks, and more willing to pay a premium for the benefits of replaceable batteries... and the companies that make vapes and high-powered enthusiast flashlights are probably less worried about a customer suing them over a battery issue than a large toy manufacturer. If you're a vape company, you have bigger safety issues to worry about -- like the normal operation of your products :)
- joecool1029 1y ago> and few I believe bother to dispose of them correctly. There are no mercury alkalines anymore for general consumer use, those collection bins were removed from stores in the 90's and they can be disposed of with normal waste.
- Zak 1y agoI actually have a Bluetooth speaker that takes a removable 18650. It was branded "Polaris V8", but I think it's a white label product that's no longer in production. It still works, and most other ten year old Bluetooth speakers probably don't. I'm with you on the risk/benefit calculation. E-waste is bad, and the option to bring a spare battery makes a lot of products more useful. A Li-ion cell can be dangerous if mishandled, but less so than a jug of gasoline or larger power tools. This can be considerably mitigated by sticking a protection circuit on the end of a cell, which makes it no more dangerous than the proprietary Li-ion batteries used in things like cameras.
- hn_acc1 1y agoIf you can replace the battery, they can't sell you a new one.
- BobbyTables2 1y agoBingo!
- Clamchop 1y agoI didn't know many were still buying alkaline AAs in large quantities. I've been using LSD NiMH AAs and AAAs for I think more than 15 years and haven't looked back. They seem to work with everything.
- homebrewer 1y agoThere's still lots of poorly produced electronics that treat NiMH that is within its normal operating voltage as being out of juice, and either nag you or shut down completely. My supposedly high quality Logitech mouse is one example (probably not buying anything from Logitech ever again, they're one of those brands that are coasting on their old credibility).
- Zak 1y agoA device that won't work with NiMH due to voltage will also only use about a third of the energy in an alkaline. Poorly produced is an understatement. My Logitech G604 works fine on NiMH. The calibration for reporting battery charge as a percentage is off, but it runs for months.
- ajolly 1y agoAs an aside, pretty much all the g604 is will end up with double click reliability issues or an inability to hold down the mouse button and drag. But you can easily replace the switches or there's vendors on eBay and AliExpress that I'll sell you a circuit board with the switches pre-soldered for replacement. Logitech no longer makes the g604 :(
- kube-system 1y agoThat's probably an advantage for people who know what they're doing, and more dangerous for people who don't.
- Zak 1y agoThat's true, but it's pretty common to stick a protection circuit on the end of a cell, making it similarly safe to the proprietary Li-ion batteries that power cameras and the like.
- kube-system 1y agoIt's also common to not put protection on the end of an 18650, which is probably a big reason we don't see more of these in user-serviceable devices. Even if you ship a device with a protected cell, the inherent implication of an 18650 socket is that someone is going to buy a cell from somewhere else and stick it in there. (and maybe throw a few in their junk drawer along with some loose change and rusty silverware)
- Zak 1y agoPerhaps one of the things that should be included in right to repair legislation is stronger liability protection in cases where a third-party battery is installed in a device. I do often stick unprotected cells in flashlights that came with protected ones. It's important to know whether the flashlight can over-discharge the cell, but most can't, and it's important to not short-circuit them. I suggest people who don't want to learn about batteries stick with protected.
- kube-system 1y agoEh... I strongly disagree... We shouldn't let companies put out products that burn parents' house down because grandma didn't research 18650 protection circuits when she bought the grandkids some batteries for their toy on Amazon. Consumer product safety regulation is written in blood, and exists for a very good reason. Let the advanced right-to-repair audience open up the device with a screwdriver and install a new LiPo pouch. We don't need a battery door to let kids in like it's as safe as AAs in a gameboy.
- makeitdouble 1y agoThere's a flurry of battery holders that accept 21700 cells, but the power delivery is just too weak IMHO. From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone. https://www.amazon.co.jp/PLCPDM/dp/B0DFPKXQZ1 https://www.amazon.co.jp/PLCPDM/dp/B0DFPKXQZ1
- datadrivenangel 1y agoYou can get these for 18650s as well. Most of them use rails though, so different cell chemistries are a bit of a risk over time.
- ryukafalz 1y agoI agree, but specifically LFP cells rather then NMC. Less likely to get angry. (My laptop uses these and I appreciate it all the time.)
- Zak 1y agoLFP capacity is terrible. LMFC is a recent development which closes that gap; it's still heavier than NMC or NCA, but that's a worthwhile tradeoff in many applications.
- Pxtl 1y agoA fun trick is that if you're sure the batteries are in series you can sometimes swap out a pair of AA batteries for a 3.7V 14500 Lithium rechargeable and a fake AA battery (just a wire in an AA-sized plastic shell). Drill a hole in the battery-cover of the device where the 14500's USB port is and now your device is plug-in rechargeable, assuming it can handle 3.7V instead of the normal ~3.1V that comes from a pair of AAs (which isn't a huge stretch). Worked for my old Logitech game controllers. Downside is that you've got parts in your bin that are dangerous because they look like AA batteries but could cause damage or even fires if somebody put them into the wrong AA thing. Make sure to mark the batteries loudly. I've electrical-taped the pairs together to prevent this problem.
- LorenPechtel 1y agoI have a headlamp for hiking with a slightly different take on this. It will take 3x ordinary or rechargeable cells, or it will take it's Li-Ion pack that is the same size as the 3 cells side by side. Designed in from the start so there are no dangerous bits. Hiking headlamps are something where you do *not* want to be left with a dead battery!
- Zak 1y agoA headlamp that can run on either AA or 14500 tends to be a better approach than this. Those proprietary batteries are usually pretty expensive compared to a 14500, and three AAAs as spares aren't nearly as convenient as one AA. There are a handful of these on the market and they're not common in retail stores. I'm fond of the Skilhunt H150.
- Pxtl 1y agoFollow up on this: from conversation elsewhere, another important safety tip is to get the 14500s with fancy electronics incl a USB port, because without that the battery will be a fire-hazard in this kind use.
- LorenPechtel 1y agoThere's a liability issue here. You must have a charge controller in Li-Ion between each voltage point because overcharging a cell is asking for trouble. Sealed battery pack, you can put a little controller in there with it. Loose cell, you either give up some capacity and add some cost by putting a controller in each cell, or you trust that the controller in whatever charges it is good. Bare cell, good charger, fine. Bare cell, iffy charger, you might get the blame when the cell goes up. Thus it's very hard to find good bare cells.
- ramses0 1y agoSame, but different. I have bought maybe hundreds of rechargeable AA/AAA batteries over the last ten years, and chased as exclusively as possible devices without built-in rechargeable batteries. Anything with a built-in battery is nearly always e-waste within 3 years, while I've had AA/AAA devices that are 5-10 years old that are fine. Pop the batteries out when in storage, never need to wait for it to recharge (just rotate in new batteries), use disposable batteries from the corner shop in an emergency.
- turnsout 1y agoExactly. I still use portable flash units (speed lights) that are now well over 20 years old, while a lot of the newer units have built-in batteries that will fail in just a few years. And it's an extreme example, but I still use my Game Boy DMG, which is a 36 year old device. All electronic devices are eventually e-waste, but devices that use AA/AAA can last decades longer. I only buy something with a lithium ion battery when there is almost literally no alternative (essentially phone and laptop).