4 ms·

It's a start. The world needs a better way to handle bookkeeping, and the existing tools sure aren't cutting it. Bookkeeping for my small business runs into th

It's a start. The world needs a better way to handle bookkeeping, and the existing tools sure aren't cutting it. Bookkeeping for my small business runs into the tens of thousands of dollars every year, and the amount of human error associated with processing assorted ecommerce and other transactions is astounding, even after extensive planning and SOPs. The other pain point is Quickbooks. The tool is so sprawling and complex that half the time support agents can't figure out what's wrong. The fact that Intuit jacks up the price every year for this POS is very irritating. They get away with it because they are practically a monopoly, with most small business CPAs locked into their ecosystem. Hope your team can work out the performance issues. Alternatives to the current bookkeeping options are sorely needed.

airstrike 1y ago
> It's a start. The world needs a better way to handle bookkeeping, and the existing tools sure aren't cutting it. God, please, no. Non-deterministic language models aren't the solution to improve bookkeeping.
- luckystarr 1y ago
  Well I've seen worse bookkeepers. "You know, you approved of the budget, but where are our customers payments in the balance sheets? We can't find them!" - "Uhm..."
  - mrbungie 1y ago
    Sure, let's compare an almost global failure mode with the worst examples of knowledge workers. ffs.
    - scrollaway 1y ago
      I’m coming back from my accountant right now. He uses winbooks and has interns doing the books. I have no tooling to do it for him, and I’m seeing absurdities such as a 4000 usd refund being processed as cashback, and simple typos not being caught. I wish I was working with an AI instead of this nonsense. It’d be far more accurate.
- blindhippo 1y ago
  Humans (accountants) are non-deterministic, so unsure if an LLM would be better or worse if we threw more effort at the problem. But in general, I tend to side with the "lets leave the math to purpose built models/applications" instead of generalized LLMS. LLMs are great if you are just aiming for "good enough to get through next quarter" type results. If you need 100% accuracy, an LLM isn't going to cut it.
  - ayende 1y ago
    Human accountants also have a very important property: liability. If a certified accountant told me to do X, I'm covered (at least to the point they would assist in recovering, or I can get compensation through their insurance). If LLM tells me, I'm in a bigger problem.
    - zachlatta 1y ago
      Most small businesses cannot afford CPAs for everyday tasks. At best a CPA signs off on the annual summaries. Most day to day work is done by bookkeepers who are not CPAs. In my area (Vermont) the going rate for a good CPA is $200/hr. Bookkeepers are $20-30/hr.
      - samrus 1y ago
        Most small businesses also cant afford the risk of current LLMs putting garbage in their books that, in the best case, has to be cleaned up or redone, or, in the worst case, gets the IRS up your ass
        zachlatta 1y ago
        Tuned LLMs will become more accurate than bookkeepers for most day-to-day small business transactions. I think you underestimate the amount of errors that normal bookkeepers tend to make.
    - kqr 1y ago
      There is "LLM misinformation" insurance, a very new branch of cyber insurance.
mattmanser 1y ago
With no context of what your business is, I hated QuickBooks, love Xero though. There's some other alternatives too, Zoho, freshbooks. Really depends what you do.
MrDarcy 1y ago
How small is your small business? My book keeping expenses are $120 a year, the cost of excellent saas software. I’ve found double entry books one of the most beautifully simple, yet powerful ideas I’ve ever come across. It’s hard to imagine how a balance sheet could be improved or disrupted. The balance sheet for my small business is the same as Apple and Alphabet’s and that still blows my mind.
- camtarn 1y ago
  I wonder if parent post is alluding to the number of hours spent bookkeeping? As a percentage of somebody's time, I could see that getting reasonably expensive.

airstrike 1y ago

> It's a start. The world needs a better way to handle bookkeeping, and the existing tools sure aren't cutting it. God, please, no. Non-deterministic language models aren't the solution to improve bookkeeping.

luckystarr 1y ago
Well I've seen worse bookkeepers. "You know, you approved of the budget, but where are our customers payments in the balance sheets? We can't find them!" - "Uhm..."
- mrbungie 1y ago
  Sure, let's compare an almost global failure mode with the worst examples of knowledge workers. ffs.
  - scrollaway 1y ago
    I’m coming back from my accountant right now. He uses winbooks and has interns doing the books. I have no tooling to do it for him, and I’m seeing absurdities such as a 4000 usd refund being processed as cashback, and simple typos not being caught. I wish I was working with an AI instead of this nonsense. It’d be far more accurate.
blindhippo 1y ago
Humans (accountants) are non-deterministic, so unsure if an LLM would be better or worse if we threw more effort at the problem. But in general, I tend to side with the "lets leave the math to purpose built models/applications" instead of generalized LLMS. LLMs are great if you are just aiming for "good enough to get through next quarter" type results. If you need 100% accuracy, an LLM isn't going to cut it.
- ayende 1y ago
  Human accountants also have a very important property: liability. If a certified accountant told me to do X, I'm covered (at least to the point they would assist in recovering, or I can get compensation through their insurance). If LLM tells me, I'm in a bigger problem.
  - zachlatta 1y ago
    Most small businesses cannot afford CPAs for everyday tasks. At best a CPA signs off on the annual summaries. Most day to day work is done by bookkeepers who are not CPAs. In my area (Vermont) the going rate for a good CPA is $200/hr. Bookkeepers are $20-30/hr.
    - samrus 1y ago
      Most small businesses also cant afford the risk of current LLMs putting garbage in their books that, in the best case, has to be cleaned up or redone, or, in the worst case, gets the IRS up your ass
      - zachlatta 1y ago
        Tuned LLMs will become more accurate than bookkeepers for most day-to-day small business transactions. I think you underestimate the amount of errors that normal bookkeepers tend to make.
  - kqr 1y ago
    There is "LLM misinformation" insurance, a very new branch of cyber insurance.

mattmanser 1y ago

With no context of what your business is, I hated QuickBooks, love Xero though. There's some other alternatives too, Zoho, freshbooks. Really depends what you do.

MrDarcy 1y ago

How small is your small business? My book keeping expenses are $120 a year, the cost of excellent saas software. I’ve found double entry books one of the most beautifully simple, yet powerful ideas I’ve ever come across. It’s hard to imagine how a balance sheet could be improved or disrupted. The balance sheet for my small business is the same as Apple and Alphabet’s and that still blows my mind.

camtarn 1y ago
I wonder if parent post is alluding to the number of hours spent bookkeeping? As a percentage of somebody's time, I could see that getting reasonably expensive.