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How much is a foreign intelligence service tied to nation's capacity to govern?
by 0x5FC3 1y ago
How much is a foreign intelligence service tied to nation's capacity to govern?
- nine_k 1y agoAverting threats from abroad is sort of important. E.g. a more capable foreign intelligence organization could have averted 9/11, and with it, an avalanche of changes in the way US citizens live and are governed.
- 0x5FC3 1y agoI agree, but the CIA is quite out of line, quite a lot of times. Specifically in its current iteration, I do not see the agency being high up in the absolute requirement for the capacity to govern.
- margalabargala 1y agoWhat things has the CIA done in the last quarter century that you object to as being out of line?
- 0x5FC3 1y agoWe will probably have to wait another quarter century for them to be public.
- margalabargala 1y agoOkay, so then when you were talking about your problems with the CIA "Specifically in its current iteration", you were talking about what exactly?
- 0x5FC3 1y agoThe behemoth it has become after years of toppling govts, slinging drugs, the MKs, etc., without any real repercussions.
- pphysch 1y ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> To some extent, the CIA (unintentionally?) aided and abetted the 9/11 terrorist attacks This is unsubstantiated. If you dissolved the CIA at the end of the Cold War, chances are 9/11 still happens.
- pphysch 1y agoI think if the US had an intelligence strategy priotized around protecting the homeland rather than interfering in distant lands, it is highly unlikely that 9/11 would have succeeded. Keep in mind 9/11 was a godsend for the latter strategy. PNAC was begging for a new Pearl Harbor to increase defense/IC spending just months before it happened.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> if the US had an intelligence strategy priotized around protecting the homeland rather than interfering in distant lands, it is highly unlikely that 9/11 would have succeeded Sure. That still doesn’t implicate the CIA in a domestic intelligence failure. The CIA didn’t aid and abet 9/11—I frankly thought this nonsense died a decade ago.
- BWStearns 1y ago> Some 9/11 attackers were CIA assets and protected from FBI/police scrutiny as such Citation seriously needed. This is untrue unless the words you are using are not to be understood in any sense common to English speakers. The most generous fact based interpretation I can give it is that Saudi financiers were underscrutinized for political reasons, resulting in missed opportunities to stop the attacks. The actual attackers were not CIA nor FBI assets.
- pphysch 1y ago> The most generous fact based interpretation I can give it is that Saudi financiers were underscrutinized for political reasons, resulting in missed opportunities to stop the attacks. We more or less agree. "Asset" does not mean card-carrying CIA agent.
- cycomanic 1y agoTorture, black prison sites, lied to Congress? How is that even a question?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> but the CIA is quite out of line, quite a lot of times More than other intelligence agencies? Extant or historical? Intelligence is messy. Here. And among our enemies. We have to contain that messiness domestically, to keep it from consuming us. In that way, it's analogous to our immune system. And just like our immune system, turning it off means all the other out-of-line elements around the world now have easy pickings over you. The CIA has been more destructive than other modern agencies because it's far reaching. It's not more evil than other ICs. Just more capable. I'm not thrilled to learn who occupies that vacuum if the CIA goes away; almost by definition, it won't be anyone benevolent.
- int_19h 1y agoOr it could have sit on that information in full knowledge that something like 9/11 would enable an avalanche of changes in the way US citizens are governed that increase the power of said foreign intelligence organization...
- standardUser 1y agoThat depends on the degree to which a nation is entangled in foreign trade and security and the threat it faces from foreign aggressors. The US of course being one the the most integrated, most meddling and most targeted nations in the world.